Looks like we need a more friendly thread to talk about this great plane..

And what ever else is on your mind.. Usual chat rules,,, every post must be about something or other.. But no posts allowed about someone's post being off topic..

I have converted mine over to my standard micro Deans lay out and made up two Hyperion 240 packs for her...

Please read the corrected instruction manual, link below to down load it in pdf.. For the important update on the CG location.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...7&d=1333442506

Bob did you get any of the foam melted or did your do enough protections to not burnt the connecter when changing over.

Originally Posted by scribble79

Bob did you get any of the foam melted or did your do enough protections to not burnt the connecter when changing over.

I cut away the heat shrink with a sharp #11 X acto knife, then I took some aluminum foil about 5" X 5" and cut a little X in the middle for the Deans to fit through and used it to cover the area where I would be working. I then covered the whole plane with some wash cloths that I use for working on stuff here at the desk. I was able to unsolder and switch the wires. I then use some J-B KWIK to cover the wire/connector ends like I use on my heli's..

No damage to the plane at all..

I am trying to decide whether to make an adaptor that will go from the Deans on the plane to my UMX batteries. Got the connectors and everything. Not sure which way to go here.

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

I am trying to decide whether to make an adaptor that will go from the Deans on the plane to my UMX batteries. Got the connectors and everything. Not sure which way to go here.

I also gave a lot of thought to just changing it over so that I could use my Beast batteries.. But went with the switching the Deans over to my standard way.. I'll use my normal at home chargers and take the one that came with it with me in the truck so I can recharge from the cigarette lighter..

I did also look at making up a deans to Beast 2s balance adapter but didn't yet.. I'll see how it flies first and how long it looks like it's going to last me.. Hate to get too much stuff ready for it and then total it on the first flight..

I charged up the stock battery on the charger that came with it and it never shut off,, so I'll have to look into it more..

I have set mine up on the DX6i,, aileron, elevator and rudder all needed to be set to reverse..

Lots of power,,, it feels like without the wheels it might go unlimited vertical this was with the stock battery haven't try to see what the Hyperion 240's will do... But my wheels will stay on it..

I'm still very happy with it!!!

I'm going to start off with 65% L and 85% H on rates and +15 and +25 on EXPO on E,A,R. after looking at the control throws I'm getting.

Originally Posted by livonia bob

.....Hate to get too much stuff ready for it and then total it on the first flight.....

I want to laugh at that.........but it brings back painful memories........



Good luck!

Tried it with my tactic 402 radio that came with my Fokker. It needs some programming to get it to work right, hopefully. The rudder is on the aileron throws and the ailerons are on the rudder throws. I did run it up and man does this thing sound mad! I ended up making a short adaptor from UMX to Deans. I tried the stock and hyperion batteries and there was a very noticeable difference between the stock (15C) and the hyperion (25C) batteries! This thing is going to have some awesome performance!

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

Tried it with my tactic 402 radio that came with my Fokker. It needs some programming to get it to work right, hopefully. The rudder is on the aileron throws and the ailerons are on the rudder throws. I did run it up and man does this thing sound mad! I ended up making a short adaptor from UMX to Deans. I tried the stock and hyperion batteries and there was a very noticeable difference between the stock (15C) and the hyperion (25C) batteries! This thing is going to have some awesome performance!

I'm thinking the same thing,,, also sounds neat..

I'm going to use some of my thin clear Velcro to hold the battery in,,,, I don't trust the magnets when doing outside loops..

Hyperion 240's 16.0g Stock 200 13.5g not a bad trade off for the extra power..

I was thinking the same thing I did shake it upside pretty good and they held fine.

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I'm thinking the same thing,,, also sound neat..

I'm going to use some of my thin clear Velcro to hold the battery in,,,, I don't trust the magnets when doing outside loops..

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

I was thinking the same thing I did shake it upside pretty good and they held fine.

I went ahead and did mine.. Don't want the battery sliding backwards on those high G takeoff rolls...

Some interesting reading material..

http://www.wingweb.co.uk/aircraft/F-86_Sabre_Part1.html

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I'm thinking the same thing,,, also sounds neat..

I'm going to use some of my thin clear Velcro to hold the battery in,,,, I don't trust the magnets when doing outside loops..

Hyperion 240's 16.0g Stock 200 13.5g not a bad trade off for the extra power..

Could you tell me the velcro you used? Or a link if its not too much trouble. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Entropy76

Could you tell me the velcro you used? Or a link if its not too much trouble. Thanks.

http://www.velcro.com/index.php?page...e-backed-clear

I get it at Wal Mart.. But most places will have it. it thin clear just the right thing for light weight batteries.. I get the 3 1/2" X 3/4" strips in the pack of 4 as they don't ever have the 10 pack..
http://www.velcro.com/uploads/images/product_91327.jpg

Picture of my box mod so that I can store the F-86 in the box with the landing gear attached..

Still wondering why they didn't mold these holes in the box for us..
Attached Thumbnails

Mod to box done using the Micro Therm Flameless heat gun to melt the holes..

That was the first thing I did, works great. I had a lot more damage to the surrounding foam but nothing major.

The more I think about this, this thing is just awesome. I was able to pick mine up from my LHS for $106.99 minus a $5 dollar coupon for $101.99. That is a steal and checked with the clerk several times to make sure that was the correct price and he confirmed it and asked if I wanted to pay more.

I will be ordering all future purchases from my LHS they have been great!

Originally Posted by livonia bob

Picture of my box mod so that I can store the F-86 in the box with the landing gear attached..

Still wondering why they didn't mold these holes in the box for us..
Attached Thumbnails

Mod to box done using the Micro Therm Flameless heat gun to melt the holes..

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

That was the first thing I did, works great. I had a lot more damage to the surrounding foam but nothing major.

The more I think about this, this thing is just awesome. I was able to pick mine up from my LHS for $106.99 minus a $5 dollar coupon for $101.99. That is a steal and checked with the clerk several times to make sure that was the correct price and he confirmed it and asked if I wanted to pay more.

I will be ordering all future purchases from my LHS they have been great!

That was a great price,, And I thought that I was getting a deal at $135.00.. But as I had a $100.00 gift card from Christmas from my son the cost was only $35.00.. So a much better deal than the Tower one.. And I'll buy my second one from the LHS also but I'll wait till the others in the area get their first one,,,, or maybe not depends on how it flies.. But I do need one for flying and one for show....

Im jealous guys lol

Hey guys spent the weekend flying the F86 at E-Fest really impressed with how it performs. I will be doing some more outdoor flying over the next week with it, time to take the gear off


Devin McGrath

on the lipo, with micro deans, the prong sticking out is on negative or positive side?

Originally Posted by Razors edge 29

on the lipo, with micro deans, the prong sticking out is on negative or positive side?

They used the so called industry standard of letting the positive be the exposed pin.. My personal standard is to always protect the positive so I had to switch the plane over to match LB's standard..

Damn

My lipos have the negatve pin exposed (doesn't this make the most sense?)

So I'll also have to change my over like you did Bob, or make an adapter I guess.

I plan on using HK Nano Tech 180's, but they might not be big enough anyways, so maybe I'll have to get some 240's in which case, I can fix it there

Originally Posted by livonia bob

They used the so called industry standard of letting the positive be the exposed pin.. My personal standard is to always protect the positive so I had to switch the plane over to match LB's standard..

I thought it was the negative, I will double check.

I have to say I got one while at Efest and I am really impressed. I have been waiting for a micro EDF to come out for a long time and was happy to see the Sabre! I have only flown it a couple times so far, but it does fly very well. I have done a couple hand launches with it, as well as rolled off the gear and it takes off within 50 ft and climbs out nicely. It does nice loops, scale rolls, and just looks good in the air!

I look forward to more of Great Planes Tx-R Airplanes, and hope there will be some more Edf`s coming............................................ .................................................. ............................................... Hint Hint Micro L-39

I`ll post a little more in depth flight report as soon as the Lovely Northeast Weather Starts behaving!

It comes with the positive pin exposed on the battery side.


Devin McGrath

Originally Posted by Razors edge 29

Damn

My lipos have the negatve pin exposed (doesn't this make the most sense?)

So I'll also have to change my over like you did Bob, or make an adapter I guess.

I plan on using HK Nano Tech 180's, but they might not be big enough anyways, so maybe I'll have to get some 240's in which case, I can fix it there

As I have hundreds of micro Deans made to my standard it was easier to change the plane and stock battery over. If you do this make sure you cover the area with aluminum foil so that the soldering iron doesn't melt any of the foam. I cut the heat shrink off and then replaced it with JB KWIK as there isn't room in there to replace the heat shrink.

I made up two Hyperion 240mAh battery packs so far.. I'll have to say I was glad when I got them done as it's hard doing the power leads and the balance plugs on these little ones without setting the house on fire. On the next batch that I do I'll do it a different way I think. As I'm using HK 2S balancing charger extension cables I'll do them as one piece next time and not as two separate wires like I did this time,, then I'll not have the problem of soldering two wires and a tab at the same time as I'll just strip the wires in the middle and solder that to the battery tab,, having the balance plug on the one end and the Deans premounted on the other..

I have to go to the post office to mail a slipper clutch out and the flying field is right next door to it.. From looking at my street there is a chance that the flying field/parking lot might be free of snow.. But it's still to windy I think for a first flight.. But I might take it with me ,,, and if the Champ likes the air I might try the F-86 out.. If not I'll fly the V120D02S.. It doesn't care if it's windy or not..

Originally Posted by FASTALJR

I have to say I got one while at Efest and I am really impressed. I have been waiting for a micro EDF to come out for a long time and was happy to see the Sabre! I have only flown it a couple times so far, but it does fly very well. I have done a couple hand launches with it, as well as rolled off the gear and it takes off within 50 ft and climbs out nicely. It does nice loops, scale rolls, and just looks good in the air!

I look forward to more of Great Planes Tx-R Airplanes, and hope there will be some more Edf`s coming............................................ .................................................. ............................................... Hint Hint Micro L-39

I`ll post a little more in depth flight report as soon as the Lovely Northeast Weather Starts behaving!

How is it in the wind?? I'm looking at 8-10 MPH right now and wondering if I should go give it a try..

Originally Posted by Devin McGRath

It comes with the positive pin exposed on the battery side.


Devin McGrath

Yes this is correct and the way Deans tells you to do it for what ever dumb reason I don't know.. As most people are used to real car, boat, airplane etc where we always protect the battery positive lead. I for one wasn't going to be using to standards as it's to confusing for me. So I always protect the positive one.

right i forgot about the balance leads as well

why dont hyperions come with them? Dont you have to balance a 2S?

I might just make an adapter to convert over to +pin exposed, as it'll be easier.

jb quik as heat shrink? good idea; liquid electrical tape would work as well, except I cant get it here

Bob

you build slipper clutches for people?

ps

link to 2S balancing charger extension cables

Originally Posted by livonia bob

As I have hundreds of micro Deans made to my standard it was easier to change the plane and stock battery over. If you do this make sure you cover the area with aluminum foil so that the soldering iron doesn't melt any of the foam. I cut the heat shrink off and then replaced it with JB KWIK as there isn't room in there to replace the heat shrink.

I made up two Hyperion 240mAh battery packs so far.. I'll have to say I was glad when I got them done as it's hard doing the power leads and the balance plugs on these little ones without setting the house on fire. On the next batch that I do I'll do it a different way I think. As I'm using HK 2S balancing charger extension cables I'll do them as one piece next time and not as two separate wires like I did this time,, then I'll not have the problem of soldering two wires and a tab at the same time as I'll just strip the wires in the middle and solder that to the battery tab,, having the balance plug on the one end and the Deans premounted on the other..

I have to go to the post office to mail a slipper clutch out and the flying field is right next door to it.. From looking at my street there is a chance that the flying field/parking lot might be free of snow.. But it's still to windy I think for a first flight.. But I might take it with me ,,, and if the Champ likes the air I might try the F-86 out.. If not I'll fly the V120D02S.. It doesn't care if it's windy or not..

Originally Posted by Razors edge 29

right i forgot about the balance leads as well

why dont hyperions come with them? Dont you have to balance a 2S?

I might just make an adapter to convert over to +pin exposed, as it'll be easier.

jb quik as heat shrink? good idea; liquid electrical tape would work as well, except I cant get it here

Bob

you build slipper clutches for people?

ps

link to 2S balancing charger extension cables

I don't know why they don't come with them they should,,

I didn't like the adapter way as to much chance of making a mistake one day and smoking it,,

Yes I prefer the JB KIWK as it does a much better job cures in minutes not hours like LET I use it on all my Deans connectors on the heli's,

slipper clutches are for the Walkera 120 size shaft driven tail heli's as it stops the tail drive system gear stripping problem..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577528

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...0pcs_bag_.html

sweet thanks Bob

If I end up with the 120, I'll have to buy a slipper clutch off of you.

thanks for links

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I don't know why they don't come with them they should,,

I didn't like the adapter way as to much chance of making a mistake one day and smoking it,,

Yes I prefer the JB KIWK as it does a much better job cures in minutes not hours like LET I use it on all my Deans connectors on the heli's,

slipper clutches are for the Walkera 120 size shaft driven tail heli's as it stops the tail drive system gear stripping problem..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577528

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...0pcs_bag_.html

Yep, you guys got it, the positive pin is exposed! Sorry about all that!

I don't have any other planes using the micro deans, so I just made an adaptor for my UMX batteries. I thought it was confusing just finding out that there are variants for the micro deans at all. Should be like the regular deans one way and that is it!

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

Yep, you guys got it, the positive pin is exposed! Sorry about all that!

I don't have any other planes using the micro deans, so I just made an adaptor for my UMX batteries. I thought it was confusing just finding out that there are variants for the micro deans at all. Should be like the regular deans one way and that is it!

You still have to pick if you want the top of the "T" to be positive or negative so it doesn't solve the problem for sure..

I like the micro Deans way as with one bag of ten pairs you can to a heli a charger and 18 batteries. With the other way "T" you can only do one heli, one charger and 10 batteries..

After awhile you end up with a lot of heli,charger ones laying around that you don't use..

So you have to buy more heli's and chargers to use them up..

But then you need more batteries so you have to buy another bag of ten and it all starts over again..

guys

will electrical components be replaceable on this, or will they be too hard to get at?

Got my maiden flight in.. It was really too windy to fly it and at 36F it was to cold for me. But it was looking like today or not till mid march so I went for it.. It's fast enough for me, climbs great control response was good if not to much at 65% rates might add more EXPO next time I was at +15%..

I was flying at my normal flying field/parking lot but not at my normal location as I was down at one end where the snow was gone and I could take off into the wind this means I was really flying going the short way with trees at the approach end. So while fighting the wind trying to get some close in flybys for the hat cam that turns out had died already..

At the two minute mark as I was setting up for a low flyby test landing approach and had just finished the turn on to final she did a 10 foot 20 degree dive into the grass/snow.

Hard enough that the canopy came off and was a foot in front of the plane and the nose gear has a slight bend to it.. I was really hoping that the video would help me figure out what happened but no video..

My guess is that I had the power back to far for the wind and a gust hit it, stopped it in mid air and then after the gust was pass there was no airspeed left to fly it and it was just a stall.. I'll play around with this on a calmer day when it's easier to see whats happening..

Speaking of easy to see,, it was a dark cloudy evening just before sun set and I knew from experience that she was going to be hard to see and there were times that I wasn't sure for a second or so just what she was doing as the wind was really rocking her around but I could pick up the yellow and figure it out. But tonight I'll be adding some of my orange florescent tape to the bottom of the wings to help out..

I personally think that she can handle some more battery weight on days like today. But it will have to be slid back more. So while I was flying with the Hyperion 240's as I think the stock battery is a bad battery as the charger doesn't shut off where it does with the Hyperion's.. I'm going to see what else I have on hand that might fit in her..

So after one flight what do I think.... Shes' a keeper,, can't you see the smile on my face just thinking about that one flight???

Originally Posted by livonia bob

Got my maiden flight in..

And...impressions! I won't get to maiden until AT LEAST this weekend.

As far as replacing components, I think it would be tough, I think it could be done possibly by removing the wing.

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

And...impressions! I won't get to maiden until AT LEAST this weekend.

As far as replacing components, I think it would be tough, I think it could be done possibly by removing the wing.

Go back and finish reading my post..


Taking the wing of will only let you look at where you took the wing off from... Everything of importance is under the top of the top of the airplanes fuselage..

I added some tape so I can see it better.. Found some HK 400mAh 20C batteries they will fit only worried about the weight that far forward..

Looks like it handled the crash really well! That is good! I am right with you on your explanation regarding the gust of wind.

LB,

Thanks for taking the time to describe your maiden flight, setbacks and all. I appreciate the real-world account in less than ideal conditions. I hope you manage to get some more flights in soon.

All the best!

Originally Posted by eltreato

LB,

Thanks for taking the time to describe your maiden flight, setbacks and all. I appreciate the real-world account in less than ideal conditions. I hope you manage to get some more flights in soon.

All the best!

I have been sitting here looking at the weather radar, and the winds forecast for tomorrow and right now it looks like this storm is breaking into two sets of rain storms and one might go to the north of me and the other to the south.. So there is a chance of getting more flight's in tomorrow.. And this rain tonight should remove the snow and ice that's on the main runway/parking lot I use so I'll be able to fly a better pattern and check out it's slow flight.. I did do some what looked like slow flight up high but with the wind up there it most likely wasn't slow airspeed wise..

I did want to say that the takeoff run was, short, fast, straight as a arrow. I rotated and she was pointing up and going up fast till I lowered the power and the nose.. I can't wait to be able to let her climb till she stops if she does.. But I think she will be a dot in the sky before she slows down on her own..

As a point of reference I did fly the HZ Champ before and after the F-86.. First Champ flight was a bear, started off with a 6" take off run as I was at half throttle holding her in place on the ground at the start,, took some full power flight to just hold her in place as the gusts came through.. So I stopped.. Went to the store to pick up some stuff for my wife. Came back 1/2 hour later and the wind was dying down a little so flew the F-86 just that one flight, and then took the Champ back up, she was still getting knocked around but never where she was out of control or needing full power like earlier..

I have the chance to pick one of these up at my LHS shop tonight. I'll be flying with a Dx6. Has there been any binding issues or other issues with the Dx6 and the AnyLink? Looking for some QUICK responses here if possible. Thanks!

Runnikee, you are referring to the DX6 and not the DX6i correct. I know for sure that the DX6i has been reported to work fine. I have not heard whether it works well or not with the DX6.

Originally Posted by Runnikee

I have the chance to pick one of these up at my LHS shop tonight. I'll be flying with a Dx6. Has there been any binding issues or other issues with the Dx6 and the AnyLink? Looking for some QUICK responses here if possible. Thanks!

AnyLink works with the DX6 and the adapter that you will need IS included in the box.

Yes, I'm referring to the Dx6i. The only reason I have asked was because I thought I had read on the other thread for this plane that some people were having issues with throttle settings or something like that. I just wanted to ask in here because I assume you all actually have one already. Thanks for the quick responses by the way!

I just returned from crashing mine.. Not sure but I think I have a RX problem or a motor cutting off problem.. It's repairable but till I find out what's been causing these short out of control problems that have happened on every flight so far.. I don't think it's the battery all flights have been with the Hyperion 240's as the battery that came with it has a bad cell.. I just checked the battery that was in the final crash and it's at 4.1 volts both cells 8.2 total..

I'm going to check the flight video's now and see if I can notice anything..

Here is the video from my successful test flight. It didn't take much time to feel comfortable with it in the air. Loops, rolls, and doppler passes on the first flight is not standard for me but the model just felt solid from the start!

Great Planes micro edf F-86 Sabre test flight (2 min 58 sec)

Is the higher C rating of the hyperion tripping over current protection? Just a thought.

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I just returned from crashing mine.. Not sure but I think I have a RX problem or a motor cutting off problem.. It's repairable but till I find out what's been causing these short out of control problems that have happened on every flight so far.. I don't think it's the battery all flights have been with the Hyperion 240's as the battery that came with it has a bad cell.. I just checked the battery that was in the final crash and it's at 4.1 volts both cells 8.2 total..

I'm going to check the flight video's now and see if I can notice anything..

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I just returned from crashing mine.. Not sure but I think I have a RX problem or a motor cutting off problem.. It's repairable but till I find out what's been causing these short out of control problems that have happened on every flight so far.. I don't think it's the battery all flights have been with the Hyperion 240's as the battery that came with it has a bad cell.. I just checked the battery that was in the final crash and it's at 4.1 volts both cells 8.2 total..

I'm going to check the flight video's now and see if I can notice anything..

This is the type of stuff that makes me hesitant to purchase new models so soon after they come out

Originally Posted by Runnikee

This is the type of stuff that makes me hesitant to purchase new models so soon after they come out

And what makes it all the more fun to me...

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

Is the higher C rating of the hyperion tripping over current protection? Just a thought.

I was thinking that,,, but from watching the video's I hear the motor still running even when it looks like I have no control of the plane at all BUT THE PLANE IS SLOWING DOWN maybe the blades are slipping on the motor shaft????.. I'm going to hold off till you guys can watch the video and then we will talk about what it looks like to you guys..

When she was behaving she's really nice to fly but when you start getting things happening that you didn't tell it do,, and your experience say's that wasn't the wind this time it makes you nervous and when they start happening more often and to a greater degree and you crash it's a downer..

Originally Posted by pdawg

Here is the video from my successful test flight. It didn't take much time to feel comfortable with it in the air. Loops, rolls, and doppler passes on the first flight is not standard for me but the model just felt solid from the start!

Very nice!

What battery were you using?

My crash video.. Watch it and then tell me what's going on here..

GP Micro F-86 crash,, not sure why you tell me what you think (3 min 39 sec)

I'm now thinking that that battery might be bad,, but it's the one that flew fine on the first flight today and I had recharged it with the GP charger in the truck till it said it was full about a hour,, I was flying the Champ and Fokker also today between F-86 flights..

But I put it on my Accucell when I got home it said like I posted 4.10v on each cell BUT now after 70 minutes of balance charging at .2 amps it shows that it has taken 233 mah and the cells are both at 4.14v..


I need someone to fly theirs and chop the power and see what the plane does if set up for level flight at 3/4 power..

Originally Posted by livonia bob

And what makes it all the more fun to me...

Crashing and having to pay to fix things if the crash is bad enough? Sounds like fun.

it almost looks tail heavy at first, or the wind is making it pitch back wards

then it seems that its loosing power

hmm


maybe tactic acting up?

Originally Posted by livonia bob

My crash video.. Watch it and then tell me what's going on here..

http://vimeo.com/36917985

I'm now thinking that that battery might be bad,, but it's the one that flew fine on the first flight today and I had recharged it with the GP charger in the truck till it said it was full about a hour,, I was flying the Champ and Fokker also today between F-86 flights..

But I put it on my Accucell when I got home it said like I posted 4.10v on each cell BUT now after 70 minutes of balance charging at .2 amps it shows that it has taken 233 mah and the cells are both at 4.14v..


I need someone to fly theirs and chop the power and see what the plane does if set up for level flight at 3/4 power..

Originally Posted by pugsam

Very nice! What battery were you using?

The stock 200 lipo. I did tape a dime to the lipo to get the CG a little farther forward for the test flight. It probably would have been fine without the dime but I wanted to be safe and not sorry. With the larger 340 lipo mentioned in the manual, the CG will probably be where its set now with the dime.

On a side note I also want to mention that the "Any Link" could not have been any easier to use! I just plugged it in with my futaba transmitter and it immediately established a connection with the F-86 receiver. The model took about 15 minutes to be flight worthy. In addition every control surface moved the correct direction from the get-go. I have no idea if that was intentional but I after seeing the detail put into this design, it wouldn't surprise me. The control surface deflections for the test flight were per the instructions and without any expo. Its a very straight forward model! It can fly at a very nice pace but also has the ability to slow down. The video taken of my test flight kinda speaks for itself.

From my limited experience, both of these relate to wind. It seems as if the first crash the nose dipped causing the wind to push it down, you correct by a hard bank to the right where the wind caught the large flat surface rolling the aircraft over and into the pavement. However, the glitching sound at the end seems weird.

The second one looks like a complete stall, turning into the wind the aircraft lost speed and lift, pilot corrected by applying up elevator further slowing it down and it stalled and plummeted. Now what caused that stall is questionable, could have been loss of full power or simply the plane could not provide enough thrust to penetrate the wind.

That is my take on it.

Here is my first flight today it went better than the last one..

GP F-86 Greenmead 2_16_12 1st flight today (3 min 16 sec)

Much better flight! Were the winds the same for the 2nd video as in the first? I think Indy Matt's suggestion for what happened in the first video seems to make sense.

Flys pretty nicely.
How does it sound in the flesh so to speak? Noisy? Quiet? Hard to tell in the videos - also my computer doesn't currently have any sound.

Originally Posted by Runnikee

Much better flight! Were the winds the same for the 2nd video as in the first? I think Indy Matt's suggestion for what happened in the first video seems to make sense.

OK now lets watch the middle flight. Look at what it did at 1:00 I didn't tell it to do that,, it's going down wind there has plenty of speed and it pulled up on it's own and did a flip. Battery should still have plenty of juice in it. Now notice how I don't really have any control over it at the end of the flight.. I don't think this is from a stall that I caused but more a stall that it is causing.. My gut feeling is after 57 years of flying models and 20 years of full scale even at my age and slow reflexes I would know that the plane is staled and would have full down elevator on it the whole time I was trying to get it down and as you can see she was in a nose high stall most of the way down.. Now this could be caused by it being tail heavy. I'm going to go ahead and make up the 400mAh batteries and try them..

GP F-86 Greenmead 2/16/12 2nd flight today (4 min 12 sec)

Bob

If it is tail heavy; its odd since the stock lipo is supposed to be perfect, which would lead me to believe foam density is off, or too much glue aft, or something?

Are the wing or stabs bent or warped? Tail incidence off maybe?

400's might make it way too nose heavy

Originally Posted by livonia bob

OK now lets watch the middle flight. Look at what it did at 1:00 I didn't tell it to do that,, it's going down wind there has plenty of speed and it pulled up on it's own. Battery should still have plenty of juice in it. Now notice how I don't really have any control over it at the end of the flight.. I don't think this is from a stall that I caused but more a stall that it is causing.. My gut feeling is after 57 years of flying models and 20 years of full scale even at my age and slow reflexes I would know that the plane is staled and would have full down elevator on it the whole time I was trying to get it down and as you can see she was in a nose high stall most of the way down.. Now this could be caused by it being tail heavy. I'm going to go ahead and make up the 400mAh batteries and try them..

http://vimeo.com/36929776

Originally Posted by Razors edge 29

Bob

If it is tail heavy; its odd since the stock lipo is supposed to be perfect, which would lead me to believe foam density is off, or too much glue aft, or something?

Are the wing or stabs bent or warped? Tail incidence off maybe?

400's might make it way too nose heavy

I have been watching and re-watching and watching again the video of the second flight. There is to much strange stuff going on in this flight to say it's a balance problem or a wind problem. I'm back to it's a radio problem.. Look at the flip it does starting at 1:00 that I didn't tell it to do any of that,, it was just a turn around to make another east bound pass. And watch the West bound low pass at around 3:00 it was to go into a climbing left hand turn at the end and then enter down wind heading East over the grassy area and not the sharp pull up and climb to a stall that it did. And once in the stall I couldn't break it with down elevator and power. I was able to keep it flying while it was tip stalling,, look at how high the nose is. I was able to nurse it around over the grass area and then right at the end I finally got control back and I was able to glide it over and land it in the grass where we normally land our landing gear less planes..

Now I just can't convince myself that as good as it was flying other wise and all my experience flying slow and low planes and my F-18 EDF that I every now and than with this one forget how to fly for seconds at a time..

This goes back to what has been talked about on the other (mean) thread about this plane. Maybe the AnyLink technology still has some bugs in it? I mean, if Bill Gates can't get things right on the first shot still, what makes people think Great Planes will get it right on the first try?

Yeah I know you are an experienced flyer so that is why I caveated it. I did rewatch the middle and man that isn't good. I would at least call Hobbico and let them know you are having an issue. That way if this becomes widespread they know you are one of the ones with it.

Originally Posted by livonia bob

I have been watching and re-watching and watching again the video of the second flight. There is to much strange stuff going on in this flight to say it's a balance problem or a wind problem. I'm back to it's a radio problem.. Look at the flip it does starting at 1:00 that I didn't tell it to do any of that,, it was just a turn around to make another east bound pass. And watch the West bound low pass at around 3:00 it was to go into a climbing left hand turn at the end and then enter down wind heading East over the grassy area and not the sharp pull up and climb to a stall that it did. And once in the stall I couldn't break it with down elevator and power. I was able to keep it flying while it was tip stalling,, look at how high the nose is. I was able to nurse it around over the grass area and then right at the end I finally got control back and I was able to glide it over and land it in the grass where we normally land our landing gear less planes..

Now I just can't convince myself that as good as it was flying other wise and all my experience flying slow and low planes and my F-18 EDF that I every now and than with this one forget how to fly for seconds at a time..

Originally Posted by Runnikee

This goes back to what has been talked about on the other (mean) thread about this plane. Maybe the AnyLink technology still has some bugs in it? I mean, if Bill Gates can't get things right on the first shot still, what makes people think Great Planes will get it right on the first try?

I use the same TX and Anylink with the Fokker Dr-1 with no problems at all. But while that sort of rules out the actual Anylink box, but not the RX in the F-86.

I'm convincing myself that it's more than just my flying, or the planes balance or the wind causing this problem.

Now on the good note there wasn't a whole lot of damage to the plane even with 4 force landings/crashes on her..

Someone was asking about the wind,, keep in mind that between F-86 flights I was flying the Champ and the Fokker Dr-1. So if it was flyable for me with those two I would think that the F-86 shouldn't have any problem wind wise.

Hey guys,
This is a great flyer but don't expect it to fly like a piper cub! If you fly it like a piper cub and start a climb without enough throttle or airspeed it will stall! The model will not respond to control input without airspeed and will stall like a swept wing jet. The fault is not the airframe or the Anylink.

Originally Posted by pdawg

Hey guys,
This is a great flyer but don't expect it to fly like a piper cub! If you fly it like a piper cub and start a climb without enough throttle or airspeed it will stall! The model will not respond to control input without airspeed and will stall like a swept wing jet. The fault is not the airframe or the Anylink.

So after watching the video of my second flight today you think it has going to slow and it staled when it did that flip at 1:00??


I have it all fixed and ready to go but for one little problem,, one of the fan blades has a chip in it now.. So problem is solved she will not fly again so nothing to worry about..

Got one of these today. Very mixed review. On the one hand, it flies nice, for a little while. Carries a lot of speed for a little guy, I'd guess in the 35mph range? ROG was nice and easy, and at my elevation that's a big deal.

On the other hand, two flights and two crashes. At about 2/3 throttle, cruising level and a gentle left turn and it dove in. Sheared the left wing off about an inch from the fuse. A little packing tape, check all the controls, ok, battery looks good, cg still ok, off we go with a fresh charge. ROG, climb out to about 50 feet. Level out. Oh what's this, uncommanded pitch up?! Full down elevator- nothing- it's already stalled, chop the throttle cause she's going straight down. Broke the right wing off. It's going back to the LHS.

I use an older T9CHP which has never given me a single issue. The Anylink bound to the plane upon power up and all the throws were in the correct direction. But no motor initialization. The only way I could get the motor to work was reverse the channel, full stick for no throttle. Reverse it again and quickly pull the stick down to the bottom, then throttle works normally. You have to do this every time. I played with the subtrims and epa's.

This radio system has issues, I think.

Watching and waiting..........

I don't think the wind is an issue either and am with pdawg on this one. Having logged a bunch of F-86 flights myself it really looks to me like you are just getting it too slow at times and stalling. The weird tumble thing looks a lot like my stalls where I poured on the power, held neutral elevator and waited for it to get going again. The elevator does nothing until the airframe is moving again because there is no prop blast. Do not hold any up,as you don't want to stall again immediately after regaining airspeed. Take it up high on a calm day and play with the stall a bunch. You will find it unlike most anything else you have flown when stalled.

Remember that you don't have to be going slow to stall. All you need to do is exceed the critical angle of attack, and that can happen at any speed. Pulling hard in a slow turn all but guarantees a stall as I am sure you recall from your primary training days.

I don't mean to talk down to anyone here, it is just that this model is an intro into an entirely new realm for most of us. Given that it weighs so little, it doesn't have the inertia to carry it through a near stall situation once the drag starts to build. Simple physics. Keep the power on, the fuselage close to level and you should be fine, as shown in the videos.

Bob, Futaba is well known to need throttle reversed for proper operation of an ESC. You should be able to reverse it in the transmitter once and then be fine. If not, I would have the radio checked.
Thayer

Originally Posted by Thayer

Bob, Futaba is well known to need throttle reversed for proper operation of an ESC. You should be able to reverse it in the transmitter once and then be fine. If not, I would have the radio checked.
Thayer

The radio works fine on my trex heli's and all of my other planes.. I kind of doubt it only messes up when hooked to this little EDF pos

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Got one of these today. Very mixed review. On the one hand, it flies nice, for a little while. Carries a lot of speed for a little guy, I'd guess in the 35mph range? ROG was nice and easy, and at my elevation that's a big deal.

On the other hand, two flights and two crashes. At about 2/3 throttle, cruising level and a gentle left turn and it dove in. Sheared the left wing off about an inch from the fuse. A little packing tape, check all the controls, ok, battery looks good, cg still ok, off we go with a fresh charge. ROG, climb out to about 50 feet. Level out. Oh what's this, uncommanded pitch up?! Full down elevator- nothing- it's already stalled, chop the throttle cause she's going straight down. Broke the right wing off. It's going back to the LHS.

I use an older T9CHP which has never given me a single issue. The Anylink bound to the plane upon power up and all the throws were in the correct direction. But no motor initialization. The only way I could get the motor to work was reverse the channel, full stick for no throttle. Reverse it again and quickly pull the stick down to the bottom, then throttle works normally. You have to do this every time. I played with the subtrims and epa's.

This radio system has issues, I think.

On mine with the DX6i I have to go to full throttle and hold it there for a second or two then back to off and then it's ready to go..

So we both are having a unasked for up elevator?? I had the dive yesterday on my first flight.. And today the up elevator..

Looks like I sucked part of the front cowl through the motor and now I have a chipped blade. Now I know why I couldn't find all the pieces at the crash site.

[QUOTE=Thayer;20769800.....Given that it weighs so little, it doesn't have the inertia to carry it through a near stall situation once the drag starts to build. Simple physics. Keep the power on, the fuselage close to level and you should be fine.....
Thayer[/QUOTE]

+1

I'm no Old Hand, having had only two EDFs up to now, but I say True Dat!

Sounds similar. And I know what people are gonna say. You got it too slow and it stalled, yada yada.. let's think this through. I'm holding full power for takeoff. Nice, not pitchy climbout, level out still holding full power and accelerating. Recipe for a stall? No, not at all. And that's when it decided to go vertical with no stick input. My first thought was the canopy came off and the battery shifted back. Nope. CG correct too. Maybe I hit a bird's wake turbulence. All I know is that it didn't do what I told it to and I certainly didn't cause it to wallow into a stall.

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Sounds similar. And I know what people are gonna say. You got it too slow and it stalled, yada yada.. let's think this through. I'm holding full power for takeoff. Nice, not pitchy climbout, level out still holding full power and accelerating. Recipe for a stall? No, not at all. And that's when it decided to go vertical with no stick input. My first thought was the canopy came off and the battery shifted back. Nope. CG correct too. Maybe I hit a bird's wake turbulence. All I know is that it didn't do what I told it to and I certainly didn't cause it to wallow into a stall.

Did you watch my second flight video where it did the flip at 1:00 I still think it was going to fast to stall and I was heading down hill with the power on..

And this thing is so light and has so much power that if it's pointed level and the power is on it should start flying right away even if it was stalled..

I wish I had a HobbyTown where I could go pick one up for $106 I would go get another one... But at 135 and none left in town looks like I'll be waiting till March by than I'll see what happening and if I want another one.... As it is mine is now going to be sitting on the shelf..

Originally Posted by livonia bob

Did you watch my second flight video where it did the flip at 1:00 I still think it was going to fast to stall and I was heading down hill with the power on..

And this thing is so light and has so much power that if it's pointed level and the power is on it should start flying right away even if it was stalled..

I wish I had a HobbyTown where I could go pick one up for $106 I would go get another one... But at 135 and none left in town looks like I'll be waiting till March by than I'll see what happening and if I want another one.... As it is mine is now going to be sitting on the shelf..

Well, like somebody else said in this thread there is no such thing as too fast to stall. You just have to exceed the critical angle of attack on the wing. I haven't got to check out the stall characteristics of this model, I'd expect them to be somewhat vicious.

My other EDF is the big foamie HABU, and it's fairly docile in the stall, it wobbles a bit and gives tons of warning.

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

I use an older T9CHP which has never given me a single issue. The Anylink bound to the plane upon power up and all the throws were in the correct direction. But no motor initialization. The only way I could get the motor to work was reverse the channel, full stick for no throttle. Reverse it again and quickly pull the stick down to the bottom, then throttle works normally. You have to do this every time. I played with the subtrims and epa's.

This radio system has issues, I think.

If you read the directions (page 8) that came with the Sabre you will see that the motor wont arm unless you give the stick full throttle till one beep is heard and lower the stick and you will hear 4 quick ones...

Manuals are for sissies!

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Well, like somebody else said in this thread there is no such thing as too fast to stall. You just have to exceed the critical angle of attack on the wing. I haven't got to check out the stall characteristics of this model, I'd expect them to be somewhat vicious.

My other EDF is the big foamie HABU, and it's fairly docile in the stall, it wobbles a bit and gives tons of warning.

OK I'll agree there,, but what if I was telling it to speed up and go down and it pulled up and slowed down?

I was just doing a test here with mine to see if the vibration from the chipped blade was going to be to bad to fly it. I started my timer and was running the throttle between half and full back and forth leaving it at one place for about 15 seconds.. At around the 2 minute mark the red light on the plane blinked off and on a couple of times and the motor was slowing
down and speeding up with the light. I didn't think fast enough to check the elevator... Thinking this must be LVC I then went to full power which it still had and it ran at full power till the 4 minute mark where is then slowly lost speed and stopped..

I think it's would still be flyable,, but I'm afraid to fly it now with the radio problems..

I had to redo the secondary programming, first try the rudder did not work. Redid the programming back to normal and then to secondary again and it all worked. I ended up making my own cable for my DX8.

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Manuals are for sissies!

LOL!
to be fair, this is the only manual I've read on a new plane..
mostly because of this AnyLink system.. and I did notice that the link would shut down when I was moving it on the table where I was setting up my Sabre and the motor spun up all on its own?
the AnyLink did loose signal 3 times while setting up this jet...

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Well, like somebody else said in this thread there is no such thing as too fast to stall. You just have to exceed the critical angle of attack on the wing. I haven't got to check out the stall characteristics of this model, I'd expect them to be somewhat vicious.

My other EDF is the big foamie HABU, and it's fairly docile in the stall, it wobbles a bit and gives tons of warning.

My other EDF is a F-18 It's about like the F-86 you can hold the nose up and walk it down. But then it does what I tell it to do not just pointing at the sky while cutting power when it wants to. And making me walk it down when that wasn't my plan...

With he red light on the RX just now flashing on and off when doing a motor test I'm even more thinking it not my flying..

Originally Posted by brushless55

LOL!
to be fair, this is the only manual I've read on a new plane..
mostly because of this AnyLink system.. and I did notice that the link would shut down when I was moving it on the table where I was setting up my Sabre and the motor spun up all on its own?
the AnyLink did loose signal 3 times while setting up this jet...

I would double check and make sure your cables are tight.

Originally Posted by livonia bob

My other EDF is a F-18 It's about like the F-86 you can hold the nose up and walk it down. But then it does what I tell it to do not just pointing at the sky while cutting power when it wants to. And making me walk it down when that wasn't my plan...

With he red light on the RX just now flashing on and off when doing a motor test I'm even more thinking it not my flying..

Not so good.. Going to be a little nervous about flying the replacement. These things don't bounce too well, why couldn't they have used Z-Foam?

Well mine is pretty much toast!! I flew it yesterday afternoon for a very short flight. Followed all the instructions per both manuals, etc on setting it up with a DX6i. I also had what seemed like some kind of pwr disruption, or something with the rx. I didn't worry too much about it at the time. I did a range ck before the maiden and everything seemed ok. I took it off and did a couple of wide circles. On the third time around the plane looked to pitch up pretty much vertical, stall, and then crashed into a group of trees!! Tore off most of vert stab, punched a hole in right wing, etc. Not really sure if it was a Anylink problem, LVC, etc. All I know is that I did not command up elevator at the time of the lose of control, and it didn't seem my control inputs duriing my attemped recovery had any effect. I have been flying fixed wing rc since 04, and would consider my skill level to be high intermediate. I think I will wait it out with other flight reports from you guys before I buy another F86.

Originally Posted by IndyMatt

I would double check and make sure your cables are tight.

that's what I was doing when it lost signal?

but I just did two more test.. one at 30% throttle and another at 45% throttle, and things are looking good..
now I'm calculating the amp draw at those settings..

M3_matt: Maybe another unexplained AOA/stall issue, a la Livonia Bob.....

Originally Posted by pugsam

M3_matt: Another unexplained AOA/stall issue, a la Livonia Bob?

Not really sure? I was in a slightly banked left turn a 3/4 throttle before it pitched up and fell off. Like someone else said earlier, a plane can stall at any attitude or airspeed!! I do not think it was a accelerated stall like I think Livonia Bob mentioned. In my situation the thing pitched straight up then spun in!! It happened so damn fast all I could do is basically watch it come smashing down on the trees. I might power on the the plane again and see if I can find out if its a electronic problem, etc.

Hmmm, it sounds like a couple good pilots on here are having grief. Are there many folks out there flying their new f-86s who aren't having problems? So often I think we just hear about what is not going right on forums, and people don't bother posting about uneventful outings. I hope you guys get things sorted out and continue to share your findings.

Thanks!

I hope there's a bunch of good examples, it's a neat flier!

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

I hope there's a bunch of good examples, it's a neat flier!

I should have mine up in the air this weekend, that is if it does not snow again...

Nice, mine had a little crinkle on the top of the tail right out of the box.

The wings shear right down the black lines...

Got mine and flew it Wednesday,

do not exceed the throws for the elevator given in the manual!
When i gave it a bit more in high rate it snaped over and went nose high and took a lot of time to recover, long enough to hear the dozen or so people at the field watching making sounds of horror on what they expected to follow. luckily, i have had a lot of experience with the sabre airframe(50mm jpower) and thrust vector jets to be able to recover it from this situation.
First flight my right rear gear fell off on touchdown on paved runway, making me take it back up and into the grass. reglued and then on second flight lost the nose gear on landing. looks like the glue didnt penetrate through the silver paint and pulled off the foam. Easy fix at the field, just be sure to bring foam safe CA with you if you plan to use the landing gear.

wasnt able to get a third flight in that day, will post more info later.

Originally Posted by smasher41

Got mine and flew it Wednesday,

do not exceed the throws for the elevator given in the manual!
When i gave it a bit more in high rate it snaped over and went nose high and took a lot of time to recover, long enough to hear the dozen or so people at the field watching making sounds of horror on what they expected to follow. luckily, i have had a lot of experience with the sabre airframe(50mm jpower) and thrust vector jets to be able to recover it from this situation.
First flight my right rear gear fell off on touchdown on paved runway, making me take it back up and into the grass. reglued and then on second flight lost the nose gear on landing. looks like the glue didnt penetrate through the silver paint and pulled off the foam. Easy fix at the field, just be sure to bring foam safe CA with you if you plan to use the landing gear.

wasnt able to get a third flight in that day, will post more info later.

sounds like this may be what issues some are having?
I think I will set my expo at 50% to soften things up before flight

Originally Posted by brushless55

sounds like this may be what issues some are having?
I think I will set my expo at 50% to soften things up before flight

i think i used 35% expo on the elevator and it was perfect, just dont give more throw than the manual says, infact i think i used that distance for high rate(100%) and set low rate to 75%. Also excessive throw can also cause the horizontal stabalizer to flex with the elevator input and cause unequal throws which cause roll

Originally Posted by smasher41

i think i used 35% expo on the elevator and it was perfect, just dont give more throw than the manual says, infact i think i used that distance for high rate(100%) and set low rate to 75%. Also excessive throw can also cause the horizontal stabalizer to flex with the elevator input and cause unequal throws which cause roll

I think that's what I have mine set to now..
and I may add 15% more...
I think the throws if I'm not mistaken are set from the factory?
but I may turn those down to..

Maybe twitchy servos, or flimsy tail?

Perhaps adding CF to tail would help.

Adapter for dx8...
Eas thinking about just making my own, will a 2s lipo work for the power supply side? Or does it have to be life?



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Simple Questions

1. On full power takeoff is the plane going into a vertical climb even if you are trying to flatten it out.

2. Is your plane trimmed to what you feel is level flight at 3/4 power?

3. Have you had what felt like a uncommanded pitch up and lost of control or power lost.




For me it's.... YES, YES, YES