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Old Feb 15, 2013, 03:50 PM
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Minnesota, USA
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Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
Oh man, YES!
50" long boat with 800sq inches of sail designed as a Scow?
Why?

WHY NOT!
Scows are sailed heeled quite a bit. Thus they use "Bilge Boards" - one on each side of the boat. Since the M rules prohibit more than one keel, the center keel (with lead) would be constantly trying to right the boat to a flat/level waterline, while the "design" looks for the hull to be sailed in a heeled position to gain extra waterline length. Not that is can't/couldn't be done, but the compromise to stay legal would have an effect on performance.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:05 PM
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At the time we started the Bone development, Marblehead designers had started to push the new hulls toward wider and lighter, apparently on pursuit of planing performance since the predominance of the pendulum stability from the lead as opposed to form stability from beam seemed to us to make no sense to go wide, and the newest beamy hiulls did not tank test well because for the same displacement, they had a lot more wetted surface than the circular sections we used, and which did test so very well. Perhaps that still holds ?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 05:34 PM
Don't lie to my dog.
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United States, DE, Wilmington
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The performance of scows is predicated on movable ballast. It is really hard to find little men to man an M. And even harder to get them to hike.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gpzy View Post
Not in my possession I think Graves is still around and may have some molds left from when he had his boat building business.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/glb/general.html

Web site last updated in 2000.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by klkirkman View Post
At the time we started the Bone development, Marblehead designers had started to push the new hulls toward wider and lighter, apparently on pursuit of planing performance since the predominance of the pendulum stability from the lead as opposed to form stability from beam seemed to us to make no sense to go wide, and the newest beamy hiulls did not tank test well because for the same displacement, they had a lot more wetted surface than the circular sections we used, and which did test so very well. Perhaps that still holds ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg28 View Post
The performance of scows is predicated on movable ballast. It is really hard to find little men to man an M. And even harder to get them to hike.
The science behind what makes different boats go better than others is, atleast in my mind, what really makes the M-class so cool. We really can play and experiment, and... most importantly understand WHY a different boat with the same LWL and sail area goes quicker than another within the same confines.

Anyways, as everyone knows by now It's my thought that we can still sail these designs from any and every era and design of the M, you just score them with similar boats.

I honestly don't know anything about the scow, and it's predication on moveable ballasts. All I really know is that they are ugly as sin, but do mark somebody using their noggin atlleast trying to build a better mousetrap.
Obviously from what you mention it has limitations in the M-class rules. But, hey, it could still be a blast to sail with the right group.
I think it might be paticularly cool to sail a Graves scow with/against a 50" Star if someone built one. Why not?

Yes, we know that neither of those are top-of the fleet boats. But if you really want to win, you've got to design something to beat Brad Gibson right now. I hope someone does!
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
Unfortunately (and I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm) having a mold doesn't also mean you have the right to build and sell boats from it. The design still belongs to its creator and you really should get that person's permission. It could be that the designer is excited that you are bringing their boat back into the marketplace and will welcome your efforts. But, also, maybe the designer doesn't want that boat in the market anymore. Or would like a royalty of some kind. Or might want an assurance of the quality of the product you are going to produce. Both Terry Allen and Jon Elmaleh are both still very much around and can be found with a google search. The goal of putting boats into the market is a good one, but how you go about doing it is equally important.
Well, I've exhausted all contacts I can come up with trying to speak to John regarding the Pinter 3.

If you, or anyone else may have some suggestions on how I might contact him, or have him contact me, please do let me know. Everything I have was a dead-end.

It would sure be nice get the M-class ball rolling. It wont happen unless everyone is pulling on the same end of the rope.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:42 AM
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Jon@outthere.com. 718 875 5678
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:23 AM
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If you want more info on the design of R/C scows, contact Frank Russell, here in Oz. Just google Frank Russell Designs. Back in the day he designed a scow 10R which was quick apparently.....

Franks a great guy, very generous with information in my experiences.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:33 AM
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Thank You Tom.

I've taken that info for personal use to contact him regarding possibly making boats from the pinter 3 mould.

I would suggest taking his email and number off of public view for privacy reasons though.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 01:08 PM
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I received a phone-call yesterday from California regarding making boats from the ORCO moulds.

Good-to-go!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 01:33 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
I received a phone-call yesterday from California regarding making boats from the ORCO moulds.

Good-to-go!
If you spoke to Swede you spoke to a legend of model boats !!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:00 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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Sweet.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:38 AM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Apr 2007
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Some vintage M class boats being built in Souther California.
http://www.pondboats.com/riptide.htm
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:14 PM
Guz
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Tempe, AZ
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Never mind.
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Last edited by Guz; Feb 21, 2013 at 08:58 PM. Reason: I'm a idiot
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:21 PM
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You are TOTALLY incorrect about having the right to sell hulls if you own "original" molds. Unless you own the molds AND have the right from the designer to sell boats pulled from those molds you are violating the rights of the designer. To use a simple example, if I buy an original manuscript that doesn't give me the right to publish that book even if I use the author's name when I publish. And forgetting the law, it isn't the right thing to do. Always ask for permission.
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