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Old Feb 13, 2013, 08:06 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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I was watching the auction for the skinny mold, but I didn't know who was Chuck Black was at the time, so I didn't bid. As it turns out, this is probably better for the class, as I likely would've only made a few of questionable quality, and wouldn't have considered farming out the work.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 08:22 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Actually, I should say that I think I've sold a few boats to the guys in Orange County. They want them hah.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:55 AM
Guz
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Breakwater,

Out of curiosity, how did you obtain the Orco Skinny mold?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:29 PM
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'
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Originally Posted by Guz View Post
Breakwater,

Out of curiosity, how did you obtain the Orco Skinny mold?
By being in touch with, conversating, and promoting the Marblehead Class. All it takes is a conversation to get things rolling.
What can you get done? Can we work together? Let's go!



Just like how I went after trying to find if there were any production or copyright issues on the ORCO and Max, and now I have the OCRO '90 US1M skinny Moulds on a truck, and on their way to me.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:17 PM
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Unfortunately (and I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm) having a mold doesn't also mean you have the right to build and sell boats from it. The design still belongs to its creator and you really should get that person's permission. It could be that the designer is excited that you are bringing their boat back into the marketplace and will welcome your efforts. But, also, maybe the designer doesn't want that boat in the market anymore. Or would like a royalty of some kind. Or might want an assurance of the quality of the product you are going to produce. Both Terry Allen and Jon Elmaleh are both still very much around and can be found with a google search. The goal of putting boats into the market is a good one, but how you go about doing it is equally important.

And one other thing, the Orco Skinny was as much a class killer back in the day as the Skapel you are always talking about. Swede sold those boats for very little money compared to a lot of other boats available and they were purchased by a number of beginners. Unfortunately, the boat was difficult to tune and sail well and virtually all of those first time purchasers became disillusioned with the Marblehead class as they consistently finished in the back of the fleet.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 06:02 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
carlsoti's Avatar
United States, AZ, Chandler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
... I've tried to contact the designers with no success, I even said I have no intent to cross any lines I'm not supposed to, so let's not get confused on that issue.
...
If you know of a way to contact him, please let me know and I will do so. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
Unfortunately...
Tom, breakwater knows what's up. I heard through the grapevine that a local here still talks with Swede, and I offered up my assistance to try to get the "OK" from the designer. Guz is the guy that told me he knows a guy that still talks with Mr. Johnson. I think breakwater knows there's a possibility that his idea could be shut down.

Breakwater is doing the right thing. He's making an attempt to build the class, without the intent of it being a source of income.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
Unfortunately (and I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm) having a mold doesn't also mean you have the right to build and sell boats from it. The design still belongs to its creator and you really should get that person's permission. It could be that the designer is excited that you are bringing their boat back into the marketplace and will welcome your efforts. But, also, maybe the designer doesn't want that boat in the market anymore. Or would like a royalty of some kind. Or might want an assurance of the quality of the product you are going to produce. Both Terry Allen and Jon Elmaleh are both still very much around and can be found with a google search. The goal of putting boats into the market is a good one, but how you go about doing it is equally important.

And one other thing, the Orco Skinny was as much a class killer back in the day as the Skapel you are always talking about. Swede sold those boats for very little money compared to a lot of other boats available and they were purchased by a number of beginners. Unfortunately, the boat was difficult to tune and sail well and virtually all of those first time purchasers became disillusioned with the Marblehead class as they consistently finished in the back of the fleet.
Having the mould doesn't mean that I cannot get the rights to build and sell boat from it either, so lets not make that assumption that way as well.
No action has been taken at this time, so there is no issue. But Hey, You are here helping find those designers and what their wishes are either way, right?

Our M-Class has ZERO Domestic USA suppliers. Some have liked the idea, and are helping to find answers to those copyright issues (If any) It sure would be nice if somebody could make a boat. Doesn't have to be me....

I said I have no intention of crossing lines I shouldn't, so again, let's not get confused on that issue. I also said I will not be doing the laminating so I doubly have no intent to mess with property rights and bring in another person who is completely innocent.
I will say it again. Just incase. I have no intent of crossing lines I shouldn't. I want to get this class' feet un-stuck from the molasses. Don't you? Help us find what Terry Allen and Sweede's wishes are.
I've been very open with my intents. There's no secrets here, I'm not looking to make a buck, I want people to sail a boat that is 50 inches long, and carries 800 square inches of sail. Can you help?


Every conversation I have had with the California connections has been Glowingly positive in response to this idea. Including a retired Judge whom was close to Sweede, and says Sweede had ZERO issues with anyone replicating his gear.



Re the ORCO:
Yes, it is a tender boat. I reccommend the MAX over the ORCO, but I hope to produce whatever anyone wants.
I wish I had 50 different M-Moulds and could make any one of them for any customer quickly, quality, and economically.
Who the F cares what design the M is. It's just a 50/800 from whatever era.



Perhaps you can help me track down Terry Allen so I may describe my intentions to him, and ask for his direction. It would seem the help to initiate the conversation would negate some of the M-Class chasing it's tail.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
And one other thing, the Orco Skinny was as much a class killer back in the day as the Skapel you are always talking about.
Jeez 'cmon.
The Skapel hasn't killed the class.

The Skapel is just another design-change of a boat that is 50 inches long and carries 800 square inches of sail that we call a Marblehead. It happens to go faster than all the other ones. And, it's already obsolete on the world-scale. (Gibson)

The High-Flyers "killed" the Class (Goodwin Warrior)
Then the Classics "killed" the class again (Bone Syndicate)
Then the Moderns "killed the class again (More of material revolution than any paticular design change)
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 08:02 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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I've never been beaten by a Skalpel. I have had my butt handed to me by a Orco Skinny on a typically gentle AZ morning. That's why I want one. WANT one. I SO hope Swede is cool with the whole thing.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by carlsoti View Post
I've never been beaten by a Skalpel. I have had my butt handed to me by a Orco Skinny on a typically gentle AZ morning. That's why I want one. WANT one. I SO hope Swede is cool with the whole thing.
Just sail whatever era Ms with similar boats and score them accordingly... the class will be healthy, and we'll all have a blast!


Right now though,
We're all "Married filing separately"
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 08:47 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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Ok talking about molds and boats these pics are out of an old Graves Little Boatyard catalog.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gpzy View Post
Ok talking about molds and boats these pics are out of an old Graves Little Boatyard catalog.
Oh man, YES!
50" long boat with 800sq inches of sail designed as a Scow?
Why?

WHY NOT!
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:50 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
Oh man, YES!
50" long boat with 800sq inches of sail designed as a Scow?
Why?

WHY NOT!
Those molds may still be around.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:03 PM
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Well....
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:14 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
Well....
Not in my possession I think Graves is still around and may have some molds left from when he had his boat building business.
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