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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:26 AM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Originally Posted by slotracer577 View Post
My vote would be to adopt the international rules, which do have a depth limit. It is deeper than what some are using now, but it is a limit. I think it would be good to align the class with the rest of the world.
I would vote "Early and Often" for that. Then re-name by boat the "Hanging Chad"

Not because we should be aligned with the rest of the world... But because the rest of the world made a rule-set that makes sense for these modern boats. We happened to be asleap at the switch when they did it.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:27 AM
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United States, MI, Bloomfield Hills
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Here is the trouble, at least in Michigan.

Wick knows more about this than me because I wasn't involved at the time, but I can tell you pretty much for sure that if the Marblehead class here still required a new boat every year or so and six rigs the class would die. These guys came up with a few rules to save the class...in this club...and it has worked, here.

Part of the problem is that R/C boats is not the primary hobby for most of our members, it is mine but I am the exception here. Almost all of them sail full scale boats as their primary hobby/sport and R/C stuff is just something to play with one evening a week. Because of that the expense has to be low and the maintenance low as well. Add in kids and wives and R/C sailing falls even lower on their priority list.

What is my point you ask, well, it is that every club or region is different and may need to modify the rules to keep local interest up. It saved a whole bunch of boats from going in the dumpster.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
Here is the trouble, at least in Michigan.

Wick knows more about this than me because I wasn't involved at the time, but I can tell you pretty much for sure that if the Marblehead class here still required a new boat every year or so and six rigs the class would die. These guys came up with a few rules to save the class...in this club...and it has worked, here.

Part of the problem is that R/C boats is not the primary hobby for most of our members, it is mine but I am the exception here. Almost all of them sail full scale boats as their primary hobby/sport and R/C stuff is just something to play with one evening a week. Because of that the expense has to be low and the maintenance low as well. Add in kids and wives and R/C sailing falls even lower on their priority list.

What is my point you ask, well, it is that every club or region is different and may need to modify the rules to keep local interest up. It saved a whole bunch of boats from going in the dumpster.

We understand entirely... But the class can't limit those skippers that want to spend money on faster boats.
As said before a OD is a good way to handicap the Money, but at the end of the day, the OD Marbleheads are still Ms, just as all the other designs are.

I, for one would love to know how the OD Ms would fare, with Ace skippers, in a M-Nationals fleet of 50. I bet a few Ace skippers with their head in the game could do very well overall.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:28 AM
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I, for one would love to know how the OD Ms would fare, with Ace skippers, in a M-Nationals fleet of 50. I bet a few Ace skippers with their head in the game could do very well overall.
Design differences are going to be hugely noticeable in a sub-10 boat fleet..
But, in a fleet of 50, tactics and skill is going to take over.

The design will help, but you can't buy a win.

Just look at the N.Y. Yankees. Huge payroll. do they win the world series every year?


-Go Sox
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
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United States, DE, Wilmington
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The reason that I loved the Marblehead class was exactly the fact that you always needed a new boat. I used to design and build about one a year. You did not have to buy your way in if you could build. It was great fun, but I do not have the time or energy to do it any more.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:12 PM
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The reason that I loved the Marblehead class was exactly the fact that you always needed a new boat. I used to design and build about one a year. You did not have to buy your way in if you could build. It was great fun, but I do not have the time or energy to do it any more.
I'm doing that this winter..
but I'm doing it with boats that were left behind, and I'm going to get them to sail locally, and economically.
Some are faster than others, but hopefully the local fleet gets big enough that it doesn't much matter.


I would bet that if the class was running out big numbers of participants at events, you would find the time & energy to get back in the game.

Who wants to sail in a sub-10 boat Nationals?
Who doesn't want to sail in a 50+ boat Nationals?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:24 PM
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The RG65 class is actually a pretty good substitute. Pretty much unrestricted, like the Ms, but much cheaper, easier and faster to put together. And they sail great.

But nothing sails like an M.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
Part of the problem is that R/C boats is not the primary hobby for most of our members, it is mine but I am the exception here. Almost all of them sail full scale boats as their primary hobby/sport and R/C stuff is just something to play with one evening a week. Because of that the expense has to be low and the maintenance low as well. Add in kids and wives and R/C sailing falls even lower on their priority list.
This is also an issue that causes "Attendance" issues in our area.
As far as I'm concerend its a good issue to have.

What it means is that people interested in the M are, as a generality also full-scale sailors... and as a generality, full-scale sailors know what they are talking about.
If you can get those guys to the pond to sail, competition is intense.


We have one M-skipper who is a full-scale sailmaker, He gets invited all over the world to sail on boats that he makes the racing sails for.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 08:34 PM
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 10:38 AM
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United States, MI, Grosse Pointe Woods
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Originally Posted by Houdini13 View Post
...
Your correct. Seen it many, many times. Look at populations of classes. The largest class in the US is one of the cheapest. Part of me in surprised that the IOM is doing as well as it is. Considering the cost. The MH suffers from the same issue. I have a hard time selling new members on the small cost of an ODR MH. Let alone an all up Grand Prix model. We are lucky to have the ODR, it gives us 95% of the performance at an $800 price tag. ($400 used).

As for skippers not taking time out.... that is also an issue I have seen over the years. We try to make people feel welcome and ourselves approachable. It takes effort and the right mind set.

I do want to make a comment about full size boat racing. I suffer from the "not enough time" issue. Last fall I purchased a Beneteau First 42. It does eat up a lot of time. I do still put aside Thur nights for MH and 1.7 Meter racing. Not much more then that though.

I would like to ask a question of the group. I need to start a new design project. Of the designs that are doing well, what is the max beam and what is the bulb weight. My thinking is 6.25" for the beam. That is about what My Cobra II is. 7.2lb for the bulb. My keels run 0.4lb so the whole keel is 7.6lb. Also we were discussing earlier about hard chines. Any more thoughts on that. Personelly I don't see it helping on the MH. Unlike the IOM it is much longer and doesn't suffer from some of the bad habits. i.e. rolling onto it's nose when beating
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Wick Smith View Post
Your correct. Seen it many, many times. Look at populations of classes. The largest class in the US is one of the cheapest. Part of me in surprised that the IOM is doing as well as it is. Considering the cost. The MH suffers from the same issue. I have a hard time selling new members on the small cost of an ODR MH. Let alone an all up Grand Prix model. We are lucky to have the ODR, it gives us 95% of the performance at an $800 price tag. ($400 used).
It seems like it doesn't matter what value you offer these days, even if it's a good deal, someone wants to complain about the price.


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Originally Posted by Wick Smith View Post
As for skippers not taking time out.... that is also an issue I have seen over the years. We try to make people feel welcome and ourselves approachable. It takes effort and the right mind set.
Admittedly I'm not the most approachable when racing. I come to the pond to lock into battle and have a good tight competition. To blab during or between heats is a distraction.
We can all do better on this, Somehow.
I think next year I'll make business cards, and just say, here, please take this and email me. Sorry I'm in competition but if you contact me we'll get you going.


Let's face it, Any aspect of the M-Class is an Advanced class. These boats are big, and powerful.
It can be done delicately, but it's not the best idea to just toss someone green onto the transmitter without a little "Practice" beforehand.
Even an advanced skipper needs to get a feel for a different M prior to sailing it. All of these boats are different.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wick Smith View Post
I do want to make a comment about full size boat racing. I suffer from the "not enough time" issue. Last fall I purchased a Beneteau First 42. It does eat up a lot of time. I do still put aside Thur nights for MH and 1.7 Meter racing. Not much more then that though.
That's why you're an asset to those classes! Everyone has other priorities (Job/Home ownership/Maintenence) But those guys that have big boats usually have been through the ringer before and can help the newbies out. Everyone has challenges to overcome, that's why its fun to compete a few times a month and put all that other stuff behind, if atleast for just a few hours.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wick Smith View Post
I would like to ask a question of the group. I need to start a new design project. Of the designs that are doing well, what is the max beam and what is the bulb weight. My thinking is 6.25" for the beam. That is about what My Cobra II is. 7.2lb for the bulb. My keels run 0.4lb so the whole keel is 7.6lb. Also we were discussing earlier about hard chines. Any more thoughts on that. Personelly I don't see it helping on the MH. Unlike the IOM it is much longer and doesn't suffer from some of the bad habits. i.e. rolling onto it's nose when beating
All dependent upon what venue the boat will sail in.
Looking at some of the English boats that just pitchpole around the course in heavy air, it seems like some of them could benefit from a wider beam & heavier lead. A heavier boat will take more time to accelerate, but while others are stalled out tacking, or sinking, it'll carry it's mass through and drive. Sometimes It's nice to feel like you are sailing a bus.

You're the designer though, You'll know what will make your boat go.

I'm still curious if there are any super-competitive designs at, or below 10lbs all-up (except for retro-fitted stuff like IOM Bulbs)
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Just a note that Bob Sterne announced he has sold his production molds, jigs, etc. to Will Lesh (Tippecanoe Boats of Everson WA) for the various yachts Bob once produced. (1 meters, IOM, Marblehead, US1M, and 36/600) and hope to be in production sometime early 2013.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Just a note that Bob Sterne announced he has sold his production molds, jigs, etc. to Will Lesh (Tippecanoe Boats of Everson WA) for the various yachts Bob once produced. (1 meters, IOM, Marblehead, US1M, and 36/600) and hope to be in production sometime early 2013.
Will now has all of the Sterne tooling, aside from the "Orca 3-D" A Class, and the "Advantage" AC Class stuff.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Will now has all of the Sterne tooling, aside from the "Orca 3-D" A Class, and the "Advantage" AC Class stuff.
Did anyone pick up the Orca and Advantage?
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