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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Canada, BC, Maple Ridge
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I think you are missing the point. The general membership voted a bylaw that forces a grandfather clause into every class - whether the class wants it or not.

John
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:29 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Originally Posted by hiljoball View Post
I think you are missing the point. The general membership voted a bylaw that forces a grandfather clause into every class - whether the class wants it or not.

John
That is the point.
Thank You for saying it so clearly.

Any boat that was once a...... (Marblehead in this example) Is still a (Marblehead in this example)

Whether the M-Class wants it or not.
For any modern M sailor to say a Vintage M is not a M, is to loose touch with where their designs came from. Thier "parent" if you will.

Just to note, I'm a card-carrying member of the Kevlar/Carbon people in the class. I know where the roots came from.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:42 PM
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United States, MI, Bloomfield Hills
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Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
Bob Sterne Orbit
I say we make Brad Gibson race it.


Good question.... you are stretching my memory.... The name came from the use of ellipses instead of circles, so that would place it after the Logic and before the Viper M.... From what I can remember the idea, plug and mold was made by Blair Atwell and I think I may have sold a few, but don't even remember if it was ever in the catalogue, I don't think so.... It was a very lightweight design (<10 lbs.) that had to be built carefully to maintain enough ballast (I think Blair used 6.75 lbs. on a 20" fin), and as such, was good in moderate winds, planing easily before many boats.... It was similar in performance to a "one-off" boat I had which was an extremely narrowed up Kisutch (7" beam instead of 8.5") that was the first 10 lb. design we did.... the name of which escapes me at the moment.... Blair liked the performance, but the boat was hard to tack (a combination of the "vee" sections in the bow and the very light weight) so he used vertical ellipses forward and horizontal ones aft, like I did in the Viper/Venom series which followed it, which were strictly my design.... Somewhere in there about the same time as the Orbit was also a boat called Fusion, which IIRC was a narrowed up, lighter Logic developed and sailed by Bud Fassnacht.... I also had a boat called Monocat, with only a 5" beam which was a rocket in some conditions but as you might expect a VERY wet boat downwind.... We experimented a lot between the Kisutch and the Viper/Venom during the first half of the 1980s....
Thanks!

One of my sailing friends found this from Bob's Boatyard, circa 1994.

"Absolute state-of-the-art in every detail. That describes the new VIPER from Bob's Boatyard. Designed to replace both the LOGIC and ORBIT designs, this yacht combines the best features of both. It is capable of carrying a bit more ballast than the ORBIT if desired, but provides a longer waterline than the LOGIC at the lighter displacements common today. It has ORBIT's fast, fine forward sections, combined with a fuller stern to move the ballast and rig aft to allow more power to be carried off wind."

It will be mostly sailed in light air and a pond with flat water, may just be the baot for those conditions.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:53 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Thanks!

One of my sailing friends found this from Bob's Boatyard, circa 1994..
Guess what
It's still a Marblehead.

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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:41 PM
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Looks like there is some new rules when it comes to rounding marks ,looks like its now ok to hit marks i have not seen any one do turn for hitting a mark at the marblehead worlds looks like they can now hit each other as well
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BAJAN SAIL 51 View Post
Looks like there is some new rules when it comes to rounding marks ,looks like its now ok to hit marks i have not seen any one do turn for hitting a mark at the marblehead worlds looks like they can now hit each other as well
The way we sail atleast is that it is permissible to rub Windward and Leward turning marks, due to perspective and distance issues.

It is a foul to hit any mark other than these (I.E. Start/Finish)
And, it's a foul to collide with another boat.



This is a whole-different topic, but races should be all self-governing, and self-policing, unless there are judges..... Which are usually only at Major events
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 05:14 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
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United States, AZ, Chandler
Joined Jun 2008
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For our local get-togethers, we turn if we hit any mark. My depth perception was horrible last weekend. I kept scrubbing one mark, and WAY overshooting the opposite. It likely that, if we didn't have to turn for hitting a mark, I'd've sailed just as poorly, and had just as much fun.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 05:25 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Don't forget-
Local rules prevail.

If the Race comitte says they permit whacking marks... It's not a foul.
I doubt they are allowing whacking of other boats on the course, but I bet a large part of that is due also to perspective issues.

(See my note previously about walking with your boat). The controll area isn't ideal. But it's not a failure. The result is, I'd be willing to bet, several Colissions in a pack and some skippers not aware that they were even at fault.

Anything more obvious, well. Protest/Acknowlege
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 06:06 PM
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United States, CA, Fairfax
Joined Apr 2011
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MH Worlds

OK, so what has been said in the past few posts about the MH Worlds is:
- Conditions are sniffy/shifty
- Russian Roulette
- Control area is unaccepatable
- Barging, hitting marks and protests are allowed
What did I miss?
- They are Marbleheads
Not what I would consider a good venue for a World Championship.
But that is just my opionion.....this is the internet!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 06:10 PM
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France, Ile-de-France, Plaisir
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
The way we sail atleast is that it is permissible to rub Windward and Leward turning marks, due to perspective and distance issues.

It is a foul to hit any mark other than these (I.E. Start/Finish)
And, it's a foul to collide with another boat.



This is a whole-different topic, but races should be all self-governing, and self-policing, unless there are judges..... Which are usually only at Major events
At the World Championship 2012 in Britanny, there is an international jury, and there are judges:



As I know these two guys, it will be very surprising if they leave any fouling unpunished! They have eyes everywhere.

It's not because you don't see the penalties on the videos that they are not performed.

Maybe "BAJAN SAIL 51" ignores that the penalty has not to be done immediately, but as soon as possible when it does not disturb the other boats, and this can be negociated with the judges, for example when the boat is too near from others.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 06:49 PM
Guz
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Tempe, AZ
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Originally Posted by jpparisy View Post
Maybe "BAJAN SAIL 51" ignores that the penalty has not to be done immediately, but as soon as possible when it does not disturb the other boats, and this can be negociated with the judges, for example when the boat is too near from others.
I've been burned both ways on this. Taking the turn to soon (to close to others), and taking it to late.

Personally, I prefer the match racing style, where you take the turns whenever you want, up to the finish line.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 06:50 PM
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United States, MA, Wenham
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Originally Posted by Houdini13 View Post
OK, so what has been said in the past few posts about the MH Worlds is:
- Conditions are sniffy/shifty
- Russian Roulette
- Control area is unaccepatable
- Barging, hitting marks and protests are allowed
What did I miss?
- They are Marbleheads
Not what I would consider a good venue for a World Championship.
But that is just my opionion.....this is the internet!
Some of us were saying how sometimes the situation isn't perfectly ideal, but you work with it to host a good event with lots of skippers.



Don't forget.
We can't host a NCR at Redds pond. It's not deep enough.
What are we going to do about it? What's the solution? I'm on your team. Lets make it happen.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 07:02 PM
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MH Worlds

Question to JPPARISY:
- Are the Jury/Judges making there calls within the control area? Same line of sight as the sailors or positioned in an area that has better viewing, such as on the shore?
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:33 PM
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Canada, BC, Maple Ridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini13 View Post
Question to JPPARISY:
- Are the Jury/Judges making there calls within the control area? Same line of sight as the sailors or positioned in an area that has better viewing, such as on the shore?
The rules do not allow the officials to be in other areas. They must be in the control area.

John
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 02:00 AM
OlivierFRA100
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Yes John, and videos are not filmed from control area, so what you see on those is not what competitors and jury see.
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