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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:37 AM
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World (RM) Championship 2012

Yet another russian roulette party. Curiously, it's always the same winners, race after race.

This video has been taken tuesday afternoon, race 7, fleet A.

20121016161647 (7 min 51 sec)


And another, today, windy and rainy morning, race 9 fleet B.

20121017111145 (7 min 23 sec)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Yet another russian roulette party. Curiously, it's always the same winners, race after race.
Well Played
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Does anyone know what a Bob Sterne Orbit is? Is it before or after a Logic, Venom M, or?????

Where does it fit in the time line and what are it's strong and weak points?

Thanks
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
Does anyone know what a Bob Sterne Orbit is? Is it before or after a Logic, Venom M, or?????

Where does it fit in the time line and what are it's strong and weak points?

Thanks
I have a Sterne Kisutch, and 2 Sterne Vipers.
I also know about the Sterne Monocat.

But I have zero knowledge about the Sterne Orbit, or where it fits.


I do, however speak to Sterne all the time through email. I'll ask and see what I can get for you.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
I have a Sterne Kisutch, and 2 Sterne Vipers.
I also know about the Sterne Monocat.

But I have zero knowledge about the Sterne Orbit, or where it fits.


I do, however speak to Sterne all the time through email. I'll ask and see what I can get for you.
Thanks.

I asked the guy that I got it from if he knew what design it was before I bought it, he said "I don't know what it is , but it is really fast" so I bought it! I pulled the deck off to fix some things and found the sticker.

It is the typical Sterne Kevlar hull and the lines look a lot like my US1M Venom that I have, similar rudder shape made of wood, similar structure inside, and the deck fittings look the same too. No rigs came with it so no help there.

Ted
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Last edited by TedFlack; Oct 17, 2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:22 AM
OlivierFRA100
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After 12 races :

1 - Brad Gibson 15 points
2 - Graham Bantock 42 points
3 - Christophe Boisnault 45 points
4 - Gilles Di Crescenzo
5 - Martins Robert
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:34 AM
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After 12 races :

1 - Brad Gibson 15 points
2 - Graham Bantock 42 points
3 - Christophe Boisnault 45 points
4 - Gilles Di Crescenzo
5 - Martins Robert
Alright,
Lets really ruffle some feathers.




Since Brad Gibson is Soooooo far in the lead, I pose this question:

What would happen if we somehow convinced brad to compete with a Traditional designed M. Like a Madcap built with current techniques.
Well, what would happen?



Fine,
If Brad is in first place, his boat is helping him get there. It's a current design.
But if there are 68 Skippers, an we handicap the best one with a out-dates design, I would bet actual money Brad would not finish the event In 68th place.






Point is,
Sure boats are developed faster and faster, but in the USA we've fallen into a trap to thinking that Ms from different eras are actually different CLASSES!

Not true.
An M is an M, no matter what.
And, sure a fast boat helps you win, but someone's gotta skipper it.






Ok fine, that's drastic.
What If I loaned Brad my Viper? I'd bed he still finished in the top half of the fleet with such an awfully "Obsolete" boat!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Nice stuff indeed.
Just curious as why Jeff B is not doing well? His boat is based off the IOM Chienz, much like Brad G is based off the BritPop. Any info?

14 BYERLEY Jeffrey
29 28
(+1) 31
(-3)
What's the guy in 68th place sailing?
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Problem is older boats were built to different rules. They are almost different classes. If the rules had stayed the same you would have a good point. Problem is they didn't. I doubt even brad could win a regatta today with a boat built to the older rules which prohibited the bulb to be in front of the keel, and you had to have a 1" garboard radius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post

Point is,
Sure boats are developed faster and faster, but in the USA we've fallen into a trap to thinking that Ms from different eras are actually different CLASSES!

Not true.
An M is an M, no matter what.
!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Problem is older boats were built to different rules. They are almost different classes. If the rules had stayed the same you would have a good point. Problem is they didn't. I doubt even brad could win a regatta today with a boat built to the older rules which prohibited the bulb to be in front of the keel, and you had to have a 1" garboard radius.
Fair enough.
let's register those different boats as a class then.
http://www.theamya.org/boats/



Key point to what you said.
They are almost different classes.

Yes, I agree there are MAJOR differences.




I doubt even brad could win a regatta today with a boat built to the older rules which prohibited the bulb to be in front of the keel, and you had to have a 1" garboard radius.

-Nothing has been proven.
Furthermore, my point was that I would bet Money that Brad would not finish in LAST place with an obsolete design. I too would bet he couldn't win an event with an old boat.


But, what we've done at minimum now is re-vitalize at least the conversations about designs.....
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 01:26 PM
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From the AMYA Bylaws:


7.2.1 Any boat or hull once designed and built, which adheres to the class rules when designed and first built, shall remain approved and acceptable to the class. (2010)
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
Thanks.

I asked the guy that I got it from if he knew what design it was before I bought it, he said "I don't know what it is , but it is really fast" so I bought it! I pulled the deck off to fix some things and found the sticker.

It is the typical Sterne Kevlar hull and the lines look a lot like my US1M Venom that I have, similar rudder shape made of wood, similar structure inside, and the deck fittings look the same too. No rigs came with it so no help there.

Ted
Bob Sterne Orbit
I say we make Brad Gibson race it.


Good question.... you are stretching my memory.... The name came from the use of ellipses instead of circles, so that would place it after the Logic and before the Viper M.... From what I can remember the idea, plug and mold was made by Blair Atwell and I think I may have sold a few, but don't even remember if it was ever in the catalogue, I don't think so.... It was a very lightweight design (<10 lbs.) that had to be built carefully to maintain enough ballast (I think Blair used 6.75 lbs. on a 20" fin), and as such, was good in moderate winds, planing easily before many boats.... It was similar in performance to a "one-off" boat I had which was an extremely narrowed up Kisutch (7" beam instead of 8.5") that was the first 10 lb. design we did.... the name of which escapes me at the moment.... Blair liked the performance, but the boat was hard to tack (a combination of the "vee" sections in the bow and the very light weight) so he used vertical ellipses forward and horizontal ones aft, like I did in the Viper/Venom series which followed it, which were strictly my design.... Somewhere in there about the same time as the Orbit was also a boat called Fusion, which IIRC was a narrowed up, lighter Logic developed and sailed by Bud Fassnacht.... I also had a boat called Monocat, with only a 5" beam which was a rocket in some conditions but as you might expect a VERY wet boat downwind.... We experimented a lot between the Kisutch and the Viper/Venom during the first half of the 1980s....
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
From the AMYA Bylaws:


7.2.1 Any boat or hull once designed and built, which adheres to the class rules when designed and first built, shall remain approved and acceptable to the class. (2010)
That motion which was passed a couple of years ago is probably the worst motion ever passed in AMYA history.

The main problems are that it allows members to influence the class rules of classes for which they are not registered members. Only class registered members are allowed to vote on class rules changes of that specific class,

Second issue is that it tries to affect the rules of classes for which AMYA has no jurisdiction, eg the 4 recognized international classes RA, R10, RM, and IOM.

John
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:05 PM
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The main problems are that it allows members to influence the class rules of classes for which they are not registered members. Only class registered members are allowed to vote on class rules changes of that specific class.
Well,
That's false.

You can't vote in any class unless you have a registered sail number in it.
I don't have any RG-65s. I can't vote in that class. Unless someone is tallying votes and not checking if the voter is registered.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hiljoball View Post
That motion which was passed a couple of years ago is probably the worst motion ever passed in AMYA history.

The main problems are that it allows members to influence the class rules of classes for which they are not registered members. Only class registered members are allowed to vote on class rules changes of that specific class,

Second issue is that it tries to affect the rules of classes for which AMYA has no jurisdiction, eg the 4 recognized international classes RA, R10, RM, and IOM.

John
Actually, what that rules means is that if you built, or own a boat that is constructed to class rules of any era of the class, It is still acceptable in today's present-day class, even if those rule-sets have changed.


I.E.
The EC-12 Class.
How many different hulls exist? Narrow keels, Light Dumas boats, Skinny forward sections. blah blah.

You know what.
The old EC-12 hulls are grandfathered into the class and allowed to sail. There is no "Vintage, Modern, whatever" Ec-12 Class. There is the EC-12 Class.
And now, Since that class is not developmental, like the M, they have made the correct decision to move to a One-Design Hull.





If people think the boats are so different. Fine, Create a seperate class under AMYA.
Some people tried to do that with "Classic" Marbleheads.
Fail.

You need 20 boats to create ANY class you want.. Go get 'em
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