HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 12, 2012, 03:18 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seefest View Post
I believe the Toad had a design displacement of around 10-11 lbs.

If it was made to displace 13 lbs it would not be competetive. Probably not sail very well either.

I would think the proposed classic division would encompass boats like the Bingo or Epic.
The toad in specific I'm un-sure of, sounds like you know more about the details of that boat than myself. According to those pushing for it.. the class is designed for these:

"The designs include the LJ50, Epic, Bingo, Toad, Nelson MKI and MKII, Magic Dragon, and probably a hundred other designs that never made it into the national spotlight"



What i'd like to make sure to convey through this, is that it's only a proposition. It may, or may not happen.
Keep in mind. There's no point to create a class if no-one is going to sail.. So again a request to all. If you have a M, sail it! deal with the Legality of where you fit later, when people become interested in sailing with you!
breakwater is online now Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 12, 2012, 06:00 PM
Registered User
seefest's Avatar
United States, MA, Bristol
Joined Sep 2009
1,561 Posts
The Bone, Spot and Toad were the hottest M's on the market between 80 and 83. They were all offered by Chuck Black in any stage of construction. All three have won M NCR's between 80 and 83. They were considered "lightweights" if constructed right, all displacing between 10 and 12 lbs. (As opposed to earlier designs which were 15-18 lbs.)

Very surprised they grouped the Toad in that list. A well tuned Toad will destroy a Bingo or Epic in light to moderate breezes.
seefest is offline Find More Posts by seefest
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2012, 07:46 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,463 Posts
You know more about that paticular boat than I do... but the "list" is made only as a generality.
The only thing that would really matter would be if the boat conforms to the rule-set or not. (I.E. 13lbs and the others.)

If they were to enact a "Classic" M class, there would need to be a cutoff somewhere. Just as the High-Flyer class allows balanced spade rudders, and the VM does not.


The rule set draws lines on the boat that sails, rather than the design. Case & point - I own a Kistuch by Bob Sterne. This paticular design would be cut in half, with the first version qualifying and V2, and V3 not qualifying. My boat is V2, so it would be pushed forward to the Modern fleet. Even though it is all fiberglass construction & has a arm winch in it..etc.

I own the one described below with a 14" fin (which equates to an 18 1/2" total draft from waterline) These are Bob Sterne's words to describe the Kisutch:

The original KISUTCH design was 13 lbs. with 7 lbs. of lead on a 12" fin.... By the time it won the Worlds in 1980, the boat was down to under 12 lbs. with 8 lbs. of lead on a 14" fin.... Later versions were down to only about 10.5 lbs with 7.5 lbs. of lead on a 16" fin.... but the beam was pulled in (and the sheer cut down to match).... I tried beams as small as 8" (6.5 lbs. on an 18" fin), but 8.5" was typical and seemed the fastest overall....
breakwater is online now Find More Posts by breakwater
Last edited by breakwater; Feb 12, 2012 at 08:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2012, 08:18 PM
Guz
Gutless wonder
Guz's Avatar
Tempe, AZ
Joined Dec 2005
3,134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg28 View Post
Agree on the winch. I think that things which improve the ease and reliability without dramatic cost ought to be allowed. Carbon masts are really cheap nowadays, and personally I think ought to be allowed in the Soling class. But I dare not propose that. Even though the cost might be $20.
Aaaaa, but a CF mast for a Marblehead... That's a challenge to locate, or it was when I was looking a year or so ago.
Guz is offline Find More Posts by Guz
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2012, 08:21 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guz View Post
Aaaaa, but a CF mast for a Marblehead... That's a challenge to locate, or it was when I was looking a year or so ago.
Ken Bauser.
He purchased all of the carbon spars from Bob Sterne's stock when he retired.
KBsails [at] aol [dot} com

Here's his stock list and pricing, keep in mind it might be outdated.


//////////////////// Masts ////////////////////


I now have the following tapered carbon fiber masts in stock. They are excellent quality, very high modulus carbon for the best stiffness to weight ratio, and they are suitable for a wide variety of classes, as indicated below the specifications for each.


70” x 7/16” Base Diameter x 11/32” Top Diameter x 2.0 oz. Weight…..Price $ 90 Each
For US One Meter, 36/600, and similar size boats.

75” x 1/2” Base Diameter x 3/8” Top Diameter x 3.0 oz. Weight………………$130
Heavier wall thickness than the 90” masts below. Suitable for
Soling 50, Santa Barbara, & shorter Marblehead rigs.

90” x 9/16” Base Diameter x 3/8” Top Diameter x 3.4 oz. Weight………….….$150
For deck stepped Marblehead rigs, swing rigs, Infinity 54,
Soling 50, & Santa Barbara.

90” x 1/2" Base Diameter x 3/8” Top Diameter x 3.2 oz. Weight……………....$150
For keel stepped conventional Marblehead rigs. Can also be
used for Soling 50 & Santa Barbara.

100” x 5/8” Base Diameter x 13/32” Top Diameter x 4.2 oz. Weight…………..$190
For AC, “A”, & Wheeler classes.


Also available is straight carbon tubing of 7/16” inside diameter, for keel stepping
of the 70” masts, or as booms on the larger boats. Please contact me for pricing,
per the length you require.


I may be contacted, as shown below, for any additional information, quantity discounts,
ordering information, and for shipping costs to your location.
breakwater is online now Find More Posts by breakwater
Last edited by breakwater; Feb 12, 2012 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Formatting Ken's Email for spambots
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 04:57 AM
Don't lie to my dog.
Gregg28's Avatar
United States, DE, Wilmington
Joined Jun 2005
3,074 Posts
One piece tapered and wrapped carbon is expensive, yes. But three 32" x 0.25 at $8.50 is another story. Or 0.5 x 48" from Aerospace composite Products for $16.50 with another smaller tube. Certainly stiffer, lighter and easier than aluminum.
Gregg28 is offline Find More Posts by Gregg28
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 08:12 AM
Registered User
8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,097 Posts
Or try what I have done with my 10R 10mm in a 12mm that is in a 10mm, slide each tube in about 80mm and them wrap some carbon around the joins for extra strength. I used the CF tube from HK all up about $20 per mast
8387mike is online now Find More Posts by 8387mike
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 09:38 AM
Registered User
seefest's Avatar
United States, MA, Bristol
Joined Sep 2009
1,561 Posts
Ken Bausers masts are things of beauty........they are expensive though.

Several kite supply stores sell 60" lenghts of tubing in various sizes. Like Mike said, just sleeve them together and you're all set. I don't even wrap them after they are joined, just glue them together with West System and it is stronger than the tubing itself.
seefest is offline Find More Posts by seefest
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 09:44 AM
Don't lie to my dog.
Gregg28's Avatar
United States, DE, Wilmington
Joined Jun 2005
3,074 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Or try what I have done with my 10R 10mm in a 12mm that is in a 10mm, slide each tube in about 80mm and them wrap some carbon around the joins for extra strength. I used the CF tube from HK all up about $20 per mast
Now that's what I am talking about. Would be great for Soling 1M as well as the IOM. How come on a boat that costs $1500 you could not specify a non-tapered pultruded $20 carbon mast?
Gregg28 is offline Find More Posts by Gregg28
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 09:45 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2006
577 Posts
I guess I got lucky. Our club bought a bunch of masts, 100" tapered 5/8-3/8 for about $40 each. I think I have 10 or so left.
slotracer577 is offline Find More Posts by slotracer577
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 09:51 AM
Don't lie to my dog.
Gregg28's Avatar
United States, DE, Wilmington
Joined Jun 2005
3,074 Posts
I have a couple for my M rigs that I bought back in the early '90s. They were $150 per.
Gregg28 is offline Find More Posts by Gregg28
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:41 AM
Registered User
ToniGe23's Avatar
United Kingdom, London
Joined Jun 2005
826 Posts
surely fishing shops sell carbon tapered poles that's that what rods are made from.
ToniGe23 is online now Find More Posts by ToniGe23
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 03:54 PM
Guz
Gutless wonder
Guz's Avatar
Tempe, AZ
Joined Dec 2005
3,134 Posts
Most of the fishing rods that I could find were to "flexy" to be masts. But I'm inland and don't have many open water fishing supply shops
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniGe23 View Post
surely fishing shops sell carbon tapered poles that's that what rods are made from.
Guz is offline Find More Posts by Guz
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 07:38 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,152 Posts
I have been using tapered carbon fiber XC ski poles. They are wound to withstand pressure (compression) when double-poling (classic style) and I have found them more than stiff enough for my F48 trimaran at 1200 mm length (with a short straight base tube). Try some local dealers - or even the manufacturer since they destroy a lot during testing or get them back from company racers or warranty breakage. The local ski dealer may have some because of warranty replacement. "Usually" I found the tips broken where they meet the baskets and there they are about 1/4 inch max diameter.

Mine came free of charge, and postage paid. Was sent a tube with 14 broken poles of varying length which found their way to a couple of my own boats - both mono as well as multi. Never hurts to ask - just tell them what you are using them for - it may help with any costs if they know you aren't building/fixing theirs for resale.
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2012, 09:05 PM
Registered User
8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,097 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg28 View Post
Now that's what I am talking about. Would be great for Soling 1M as well as the IOM. How come on a boat that costs $1500 you could not specify a non-tapered pultruded $20 carbon mast?
Hi Gregg, can't use this on an IOM no CF masts allowed.

Quote:
I have been using tapered carbon fiber XC ski poles. They are wound to withstand pressure (compression) when double-poling (classic style) and I have found them more than stiff enough for my F48 trimaran at 1200 mm length (with a short straight base tube). Try some local dealers - or even the manufacturer since they destroy a lot during testing or get them back from company racers or warranty breakage. The local ski dealer may have some because of warranty replacement. "Usually" I found the tips broken where they meet the baskets and there they are about 1/4 inch max diameter.

Mine came free of charge, and postage paid. Was sent a tube with 14 broken poles of varying length which found their way to a couple of my own boats - both mono as well as multi. Never hurts to ask - just tell them what you are using them for - it may help with any costs if they know you aren't building/fixing theirs for resale.
Big problem for me in Perth Dick, it doesn't snow in Western Australia (sort of)
8387mike is online now Find More Posts by 8387mike
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Marblehead/10r/IOM etc Keel for Sale breakwater Boats (FS/W) 5 May 24, 2014 01:26 PM
Discussion Marblehead Help Needed.- Whirlwind Olympic Winch eurosystem0 Sailboats 17 Apr 12, 2012 03:01 PM
Question Plans for vintage Marblehead? john_k Sailboats 4 Dec 29, 2011 01:53 PM
Discussion Homemade silicone Marblehead bowbumpers Art Gallagher Sailboats 5 Nov 12, 2011 10:06 AM
For Sale RC Marblehead racingyacht cheddarcaveman Boats (FS/W) 0 Oct 02, 2011 01:52 AM