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Old Feb 09, 2012, 10:10 AM
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Maryland
Joined Dec 2002
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ALES Xplorer 3.5

I built an Xplorer 3.5 ALES plane and I am a bit confused at some of the results I am getting. After two flights I am satisfied with the performance but I have questions.
Here is my setup:
Xplorer 3.5 ST with the E fuse
2 MKS DS6125 Ė flaps
2 MKS DS6125 mini Ė Ailerons
2 MKS DS6125-h Ė Rudder & Elevator. Mounted behind the wing not in the tail.
Spinner RFM 38/6mm Twisted - 0 deg. It really needs a 40mm spinner but the 40 I have does not slide on the shaft enough to give a close fit. This may change when I move the motor back and I know it is 0deg twist.

Prop RFM 17x10 or Aeronaut CAM 18x11
Motor NEU 1112/1Y with 6.7:1 gear box
ICE Lite 100 SC
TP 2250/65C LiPo
I weighed it before completed and it came out about 81oz, now that it is complete I need to weigh it again.

The first thing Iíll say is that I had to add ~ 35g to the tail to get it to balance @ 120mm, which didnít make me happy. I have a couple of things I can change that I hope reduces the tail weight. Yep, the battery is as far back as I can get it without redoing the wire harness to the wing, I hate the idea of the work but that may be the ultimate solution. I may try an 1800/65C battery. I can move the motor back 10mm; Iíll try that first. The motor recommended (NEU 1506) is even heavierÖ..

2nd Ecalc didnít come close to what I see in real life. I ran a bench test with an Aeronaut CAM 18x11 and ended up drawing about 112Amps. I am assuming that the spinner I have is really 0 deg twist. It is an RFM offset spinner and I am not sure how to tell if I got what I asked for, does anyone know how to measure the twist for an offset spinner?
And whatís with the RPM data from the ICE? 65-70K I know the prop isnít spinning at 10K+. On the charts below I made a correction of / 2*6.7 assuming that the ICE data is twice the real RPM. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1591162
Flights were done with the RFM 17x10 prop.
The first attachment shows the first 30 sec of the first flight. Launched right into a good thermal. Using a CAM (200M - 30S) and RAM3.
The 2nd is the 2nd flight without recharging the battery.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Hi
Just curious as to the "rpm/100" on the graph is? Is that saying the ~52/100? What is the "100' portion? I'm trying to understand what I'm reading.

Thanks
Doug
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 06:40 PM
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United States, MD, Rockville
Joined Nov 2000
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Bring up to Gude and I'll test it out for ya

Sounds nice but would like to see it how about some pics!
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 06:58 PM
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Gil Gauger's Avatar
Vincennes,IN USA
Joined Apr 2007
652 Posts
Rpm

The terminology is: Actual RPM divided by 100
The plot is based on actual RPM divided by 100. So the graph says the motor is spinning @ approx 5200 rpm. I don't know the parameters for the particular equipment that he is using, but in three phase motors the output frequency of the contoller should equal the motor rpm for a six pole motor at synchronous speed. If the motor is 12 pole the rpm would be 1/2 the frequency and so on. Of course they don't run at synch speed but close unless way overloaded.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug913 View Post
Hi
Just curious as to the "rpm/100" on the graph is? Is that saying the ~52/100? What is the "100' portion? I'm trying to understand what I'm reading.

Thanks
Doug
I belive the prop is turning about 5200 RPM even though the ICE controller is telling me that the motor is spinning @ 65000+RPM. I'll try to measure the prop RPM today.
BTW - it is a 4 pole motor.
Kerry
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Last edited by rc4fun; Feb 10, 2012 at 05:09 AM.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 05:04 AM
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Maryland
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Originally Posted by CFrench View Post
Bring up to Gude and I'll test it out for ya

Sounds nice but would like to see it how about some pics!
I just really hate my drive to Gude! Which is one reason I got an E-sailplane. I have yet to find a "good time" to make the trip.
I'll see about pictures today.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 05:23 AM
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Joined Dec 2000
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Try a 1300 Thunder Power 65C battery pack, or at least compare weight to what you have. I think you will be happy with the power these put out. Worst case is to move the firewall back.

Robert
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 05:39 AM
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Hmmmm, so how long could I expect the batteries to last when drawing 80+AMPs for 30 seconds every flight? Probably worth a shot.
2250 = 6.7 oz
1800 = 5.3 oz
1300 = 4.0 oz
something to think about.
Kerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Burson View Post
Try a 1300 Thunder Power 65C battery pack, or at least compare weight to what you have. I think you will be happy with the power these put out. Worst case is to move the firewall back.

Robert
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Maryland
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picture & RPM issue solved

The RPM issue has been solved. Castle Link needed to be reset double checking the settings. It turns out that the RPM shown in the charts is correct.
Now if I can figure out how to tell if I have a prop hub with twist I can probably solve the mystery of why Ecalc does not come close to expected.
Don't get me wrong I am happy with the current performance it's just better than expected.
Ready to fly weight now 83.5 oz. I should be able to get it down to 80 oz with a smaller battery.
Kerry
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rc4fun View Post
Hmmmm, so how long could I expect the batteries to last when drawing 80+AMPs for 30 seconds every flight? Probably worth a shot.
2250 = 6.7 oz
1800 = 5.3 oz
1300 = 4.0 oz
something to think about.
Kerry
58.5seconds or one 30second climb, welcome to competition.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Burson View Post
58.5seconds or one 30second climb, welcome to competition.
I understand that part. 80A for ~20sec should leave plenty for the rest of the flight.
What I was really asking is how many times will I be able to recharge a battery given the use will be near the max recomendation. I would only use a 1300 battery for 1 flight before recharge. Will I kill it before it's time?
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rc4fun View Post
I understand that part. Will I kill it before it's time?
Welcome to competition.

It would be nice if you could monitor Amps in flight. Or just work up to 30 seconds and see what is left in the battery each time. Voltage is also big for the RX, so would not hurt to do all this testing on the ground.

Robert
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Burson View Post
Voltage is also big for the RX, so would not hurt to do all this testing on the ground.

Robert
I agree, I'm currently flying a 4.0 Xploder ST with a Nue 1509 1.5D swinging a 17X13 RF. I eliminated the rx batt and saved 4 or 5oz and then I thought that worked so well that I figured I could reduce the size of the flight pack from a TP 3850mah 3S C65 to a TP 3S 2250mah 65C and save another 4oz. This would have reduced the inflight weight of my 4.0 to about 87 to 88oz. Well I hooked up the TP 2250 and gave it a static run, the motor was pulling hard but that lasted about five seconds and I got the low voltage cutoff from my PHX ESC. The rx didn't die but the hard cutoff at low alt could have been costly. Back to the drawing board.

I have a friend that I fly with that has the same ship that you (rc4fun) have but he has a Nue 1107 if I remember correctly. It is not a hotliner but it gets him to ALES alt and any spot in the sky that he wants to go to in a lot less than the 30 sec motor run and he does not have an oz of wt stuck to the tail. You might check on the wt of a couple of the other Nue motors to see if you could save an ounce or two on the motor and get rid of the tail wt. This would allow you to keep the higher capacity pack and still save a few oz.
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Last edited by IBWALT; Feb 10, 2012 at 04:56 PM.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 05:29 PM
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Brazil, MG, Belo Horizonte
Joined Oct 2006
489 Posts
My setup

Hi,

I fly a Explorer 3.5 full carbon X-tail, my setup is not light, for motor I have a hyperion GS3032 on 845kv, 3s neu35c 4400Mah and a 15x10 RF prop and spinner, no twist.
My solution for counterbalance was servos on tail, just cut a hole there and glue the servos.
Not a Light plane but it cruises very well and thermals nicely.

I can't complain...

Cheers!

Andrť
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 10:31 PM
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USA, TX, Houston
Joined Mar 2004
290 Posts
My Setup

I believe IBWALT was referring to me. I have an Xplorer 3.5 ST e with the following setup:

Neu 1110/1Y/6.7, Ice Lite 100, Aeronaut 16x10, RF spinner, Hyperion 2200 3S 45C, Eneloop 4 cell rx pack, 761z servos except 3421 on elevator. AUW=85 oz and CG=109mm from LE. No extra weight was required in the tail OR in the nose to achieve the CG.

Climb to 200 meters is 19 seconds at a 60-65 degree angle. I can get 4 good climbs to altitude before I recharge. Flies great. Cruises nicely in section and thermals great with 1 or 2 mm camber. If wind is less than 5 mph, landing is faster than normal. Winds above 7 mph and it lands just like the non-electric 3.5.

A few weeks ago, a pinion gear came loose so I removed the motor and sent it to Neu for repair (fast and great service by the way). In the meantime, I installed a spare Neu 1112/1.5D/5.2 motor and used a 15x8 graupner. Due to the extra weight of the 1112 motor, I had to tape .25 oz of lead to the tail and move the lipo farther back to balance at the normal 109 mm from LE. It climbed to 200 meters in 21 seconds at about a 60 or 65 degree angle. AUW=87 oz. Flight characteristics were the same and I still got 4 good climbs on a charge.

The 1112 certainly has good authority and with a 6.7 gearbox and bigger battery, it should be just fine for a 4 meter Xplorer in my opinion. However the lighter 1110 and 2200 lipo work really well for ALES competition in my X3.5.

ymmv

Tommy

Edit. I'm in the process of removing the Eneloop rx pack and tapping the motor battery and using a CC regulator to power the receiver. Hopefully I can remove 3 or 4 ounces.
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Last edited by tomcat5109; Feb 10, 2012 at 10:46 PM.
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