Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

Yes, agree.

It is waste of time to discuss who came first. The chicken or the egg.

Well, since the mCP x was released over a year ago, I dare to say it came first...


That doesn't mean this HiSky heli is not worth a look. The RF modules, adding a sort of BnF option sounds interesting. And I understand it has more powerfull motors. But making it appear like it's impossible to determine which heli served as example to base the other on, seems very odd. Unless Hisky was already making this heli, Blade spies infiltrated their facility, stole the plans, destroyed the facility after that, so that they would be able to make the heli first, while HiSky was repairing the damaged facility. There is a 0.00000001% chance that this is the truth, but I bet we just have to look at history, and see which heli came first...

Originally Posted by indoorheli

You seem to be misunderstanding vast amounts of what is being said. No one cares Hisky cloned the mcpx or if there will be more mcpx clones.

So what is the problem then?

It is only value for money that counts for the customer.

If this HiSky helicopter gives more value for the money than other similar helicopters, I cannot see the problem from a customers view.

So far it looks like it does.

Wake up. We live in a world where dog eats dog. We cannot change that.

And we cannot stop the world turning.

HobbyEUSZ

BangGood has it for 140 USD with Free Shipping worldwide (+20 USD for the programmable Tx) - But ttheir site is being updated now...

Originally Posted by jcmors

So this will be an external rf module that will connect then to the trainer ports on the JR/Futaba radios?

Do you have a tentative date as to when these may appear for order?

Do you know who will be carrying them?

Jim

They will present the sample next week.

It will be available to order shortly after.

I do not know if admin allow this, but try anyway. Admin can delete the following message:

Send an email and order to www.hobbyeurope.com and it will be shipped directly to you from Shenzhen, China.

It will soon be available anyway from their webshop, sent from China.

HobbyEUSZ

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

So what is the problem then?

It is only value for money that counts for the customer.

If this HiSky helicopter gives more value for the money than other similar helicopters, I cannot see the problem from a customers view.

So far it looks like it does.

Wake up. We live in a world where dog eats dog. We cannot change that.

And we cannot stop the world turning.

HobbyEUSZ

I guess you must have short term memory You were trying to say a duck wasnt really a duck.... quack quack. I repeatedly said I don't care if it was a clone and only the price is too high but it seemed you were trying to convience us otherwise....repeatedly


As far as value for the hisky clone currently if you sell it at such a high price IMHO it is not a good value and is more of a rip off for a cloned mcpx.
Cloned products simply are not worth the same as the original. There is no justification for such a high price other than greed as hisky has very minor risk by using cheap ready to buy parts from a proven helicopter.

Since you know of Walkera you must also know that someone could buy an original design like a genius or minicp with a full computer tx for near the same price or less than the Hisky mcpx clone. If Walkera can design a model from the ground up and sell it for 30 dollars less than your clone and it comes with a true computer tx, that alone should prove your price is way too high. They have way more invested in making a model yet are able to sell it for much less when you get so much more.

It isn't a dog eats dog world for clones as cloner's will never have the newest and best heli as they are developed. That is the thing with clones as they need something to clone first...

I really think hisky and the rf modules could sell well but for a much lower price. Maybe they could also benefit from a frontman who doesn't try to cover up what the product really is and instead touts its value and performance and isn't disrespectful to members on this forum.

Originally Posted by indoorheli

As far as value for the hisky clone currently if you sell it at such a high price IMHO it is not a good value and is more of a rip off for a cloned mcpx.
Cloned products simply are not worth the same as the original. There is no justification for such a high price other than greed as hisky has very minor risk by using cheap ready to buy parts from a proven helicopter.

Well, who say so? The customers buying, or the people not buying? Constantly sold out should prove that this is wrong.

Originally Posted by indoorheli

Since you know of Walkera you must also know that someone could buy an original design like a genius or minicp with a full computer tx for near the same price or less than the Hisky mcpx clone.

Check facts first. If you want less performance and higher price with another brand name just to pin on the wall so .....

Originally Posted by indoorheli

It isn't a dog eats dog world for clones as cloner's will never have the newest and best heli as they are developed. That is the thing with clones as they need something to clone first... .

Wrong. The idea about cloning or copying is to improve the original at a lower price. Otherwise it is waste of time and money.

Ex. "Copied" and improved a Klipsch horn loudspeaker long long time ago. It played much better than the original selling at half the price as the original.

So without improvements, copy or cloning is just waste of time.

HobbyEUSZ

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

So without improvements, copy or cloning is just waste of time.

HobbyEUSZ

No its not, take the very popular, Align T-Rex clones (HK, Tarot, copterX, EXI, Titan...)

They aren't really improvements, just copies with a lower price, most of them lower quality as a price trade-off.
I also own a genuine Align T-Rex 450, much higher quality then my HK450 clone, and although much more expensive, I feel this is justified, as the money is going to who is doing R&D, to develop newer designs and improvements to be cloned in the future.

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

Wrong. The idea about cloning or copying is to improve the original at a lower price. Otherwise it is waste of time and money.

Ex. "Copied" and improved a Klipsch horn loudspeaker long long time ago. It played much better than the original selling at half the price as the original.

So without improvements, copy or cloning is just waste of time.

HobbyEUSZ

As much as I'm starting to dislike this discussion about whether the HiSky 100 is a clone or not, there you said it yourself. A clone should be better and cheaper to have real value. When pitted against an already established brand, in this case the mCP x, and the excellent mini CP helis Walkera has released, HiSky is a new name. Now with it's pricing being similar to other brands, and no reputation yet, how big is the chance people will take a gamble? But if it was indeed like half the price of the mCP x, people might be more tempted to give it a chance. Then, if it's really as good as you say it is, mouth to mouth advertizing will give the heli a good reputation.

Look at the V911, a Solo Pro V clone, with some changes. Had it been priced similarly as the original, it would not have been such a hit. HiSky is probable hoping that their heli is so much better, people are going to hear that and recommend it over the mCP x and other micro CP stuff. That might work out, but it's a gamble. When the mCP x was released, there was no heli to compare it against, but now things are far different. Any new CP micro will have to work hard to earn a right to compete with the other offerings.

I have tracking this page where the Hisky FBL 100 and the Genius CP are on sale together by the same US vendor.

http://www.hobbycool.com/rc-helicopt...f8b99ca2063ff9

The HiSky FBL 100 started off with 10 units and the Genius CP nearly 20 units. During this time, the HiSky had only sold one unit whereas the Genius CP is now down to one unit left.

I would think the $110 price tag for the Turnigy 100 with a non-programmable transmitter is more reasonable. To establish and sell well, it will need a lot of word to mouth recommendations. But its high price is preventing it from selling well in the first place.

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

Check facts first. If you want less performance and higher price with another brand name just to pin on the wall so .....

How have you sat down and flown the walkeras in question? How about the mcpx? I have flown almost ever Walkera and Blade CP ever made and so have a few others on this forum. How about you? what exactly is better about the flight characteristics? Maybe if you are so confidrent in how it flys so much better you should send a free test sample to one of us who has flown all the helicopters in question for a true end user comparison.

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

Wrong. The idea about cloning or copying is to improve the original at a lower price. Otherwise it is waste of time and money.

Ex. "Copied" and improved a Klipsch horn loudspeaker long long time ago. It played much better than the original selling at half the price as the original.

So without improvements, copy or cloning is just waste of time.

HobbyEUSZ

Well I gues i is a good start you finally willing to call it a clone!
Actually most clones are made because they are much cheaper to make and sell since they have a good design to copy from. It also cost them near nothing in design and manufacturing. To make minor improvements is nothing without a much lower selling price.
My original point was no matter how much better it flies it will never be worth near the cost of the model it was copied from. If you lower the price a bit you have the potential if it flies well to sell 100 fold what you would at the intital pricing.

I can't really understand why is so important to state for you guys if is a clone or not. What really matter to me is if is a good micro 3d heli, where to find the best deal, if it can bind with a TH9X, can we please move on?

Originally Posted by ercapoccia

I can't really understand why is so important to state for you guys if is a clone or not. What really matter to me is if is a good micro 3d heli, where to find the best deal, if it can bind with a TH9X, can we please move on?

It isn't important...more just him to stop caring that is and instead of marketing it as a new design too leave it be. He is the one who had an issue calling it as it is and was offended by the truth.
He should be telling us what areas that it is better and why.

My point always has been that it is not worth near mcpx pricing no matter what add on's it has. Clones just don't sell well at normal retail.
I would also like to know if he has personally compared and why and what areas it flys better than the mcpx and cheaper walkeras that come with full computer tx's

I can see this selling like hotcakes with the rf module ...If it was price way more reasonably. I would buy one for the parts alone if nothing else.

Originally Posted by HobbyEurope

Well, who say so? The customers buying, or the people not buying? Constantly sold out should prove that this is wrong.

The heli is selling extremely poorly at HobbyCool compared to the similarly priced and not so up to date Genius CP.


Check facts first. If you want less performance and higher price with another brand name just to pin on the wall so .....

What and where are the facts then? In what way is it better than the Mini CP and other competitors? Give us a detailed comparison between this heli and its competitors if you can.

Justify what you say or else you will come across as a completely ignorant person who just makes things up and doesn't know what he is talking about

Originally Posted by indoorheli

As far as value for the hisky clone currently if you sell it at such a high price IMHO it is not a good value and is more of a rip off for a cloned mcpx.
Cloned products simply are not worth the same as the original. There is no justification for such a high price other than greed as hisky has very minor risk by using cheap ready to buy parts from a proven helicopter.
.

Having the FBL-100 in front of me right now (mine) as well as the MCPX (my flying buddy's), they definitely do not use the same parts. Almost every mechanical part is different and not interchangeable. You cant use one part for another without changing other significant parts. In the FBL-100 the head is more solid, the ball joints are larger (stronger), the tail boom is square, the tail motor and cage are larger, the landing gear is lighter, the PCB is different, the tail rotor and main blades are completely different, just to name a few. For mine the FBL-100 is a better heli, stronger and more powerful and all parts appear to be newly moulded and are not MCPX parts at all. When it comes to flying I also prefer the FBL-100 as does my buddy who owns the MCPX. I got mine from HK for $110 RTF and I consider that a pretty good deal. On top of that spare parts for the FBL-100 have just appeared on the HK website and they are significantly cheaper than my buddy pays for his MCPX parts.

Originally Posted by papernkero

Having the FBL-100 in front of me right now (mine) as well as the MCPX (my flying buddy's), they definitely do not use the same parts. Almost every mechanical part is different and not interchangeable.

This is my understanding as well. That's why I find the claim that the HiSky FBL 100 uses available parts made from molds for the MCPx very difficult to believe.