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Old Feb 06, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, NY, New York
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15" Superfly-like Wing with HZ Champ's electronics. How to improve it?

ultra-micro delta (1 min 20 sec)

(note flying in video is far from exciting because I was filming with one hand and flying with the other, couldn't control the throttle so I had to circle non-stop)

So I built this simple wing from untitled plans I had lying around on my computer. Here is a little bit of background.

Brooklyn is not the most RC friendly place, without a car you can't drive up to a field, and majority of parks are tiny. I have one right across the street from me, but it's always crowded and it's rather windy because I'm 2 blocks away from the bay. Sunset, sunrise and midnight are the only options I have. Either before work, at night after work, or during sunset on weekends. I decided I needed to make some sort of plane to practice my delta flying skills right outside my apartment.
I took electronics from HZ Champ and decided to make a small (wingspan 15") delta for park flying.

-Made out of 4mm grey depron (white would be stiffer, but I work with what I have)

-has Vertical Stabilizers and winglets

-propeller slot is cut right down the center of gravity

-Has SF Design Solutions light kit installed

-Runs from a single cell Tenergy 500mah battery which has both jst and ultra-micro connectors for both LED and motor.

- I get about 20-30min flights on full throttle in 30F weather, this could probably improve by summer

-weight with battery is 48grams (1.5oz).



This prototype is far from pretty but it flies, I must say it actually flies great for what it is. It loops, and even rolls if I'm going fast enough. Even in wind it's not too twitchy and very predictable.
Nigh flying is awesome with this plane, there is nothing quite like doing a slow pass in clear sky with bright LED's on and moon in background.


It's almost unreal how much abuse this plane took, but even after major crashes (90% of them happened while I was practicing inverted flight too close to the ground) I was able to repair it in 10min with hot glue.

I'm sure I could shave off 5 grams if I rebuild it from scratch and get rid of all glue and additional foam used for reinforcements.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Now I need some suggestions on how to improve it's flying characteristics, mainly speed and vertical.

I've tried a 5043 prop with a spinner adapter. It gives me 30grams of static thrust vs 32 that I get from champ's stock prop. It does behave differently, I'd say it's more aggressive, but I can't really put my finger on it. Not sure which one I like more, so currently I'm still using stock prop.

I'm thinking about getting p-51 motor, but I'm sure that will bring my flight times down quite a bit.

Maybe anyone has any suggestions regarding gearbox / propeller/ motor replacements ?
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 03:43 PM
Wanton construction
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Stockholm Sweden
Joined Sep 2006
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My first move would be to replace the Tenergy cell with a quality Hyperion or MiniAviation 180~190 mAH cell, shaves at least 7 grams off the AUW.
Flight times should be at least 8 minutes, 12 with throttle management.
Half an hour at full throttle is cool but it will kill your motor!

Don't hesitate to try the P-51 motor, with stock prop or a 5045 or even a 5030.
Some people swear by the Nine Eagles Solo Pro motor which is an even hotter wind, but I haven't tried it so can't say.
For improved vertical performance the above weight loss is crucial, for speed I'd make a new airframe slightly smaller, say 90% the size of the current one.

Is the current AUW of 48 grams including the repairs?
If so a new frame at 90%, with smaller cell and a new AUW in the 36 gram range you get closer to a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio while keeping roughly the current wing loading.
And it could be worth the effort to hunt down some 3 mm Depron if it is stiffer and lighter than your current foam.

Good luck!
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 05:44 PM
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I think you can cut a bigger space for the prop, it will increase the thrust a bit.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 05:54 PM
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@Pouncer
thanks for reply

I chose Tenergy cells because they have both JTS and ultra-micro connectors on them, which is what I needed for my light kit, didn't feel like hunting down a Y connector, and they were cheap.

current AUW of 48 grams is with repairs. I feel like with different foam I could reinforce certain parts with tape. Maybe even cut out panesl and then cover them to make it even lighter.

However I'm afraid the lighter/smaller it gets, the more sensitive it will become to wind.
So for now I was looking for a solution that would involve motor/prop upgrades.

I will definitely look for P-51 motor on ebay since I've heard nothing but good things about it.
I wonder if I should get just the motor, or gearbox+motor combo since I've read earlier that champs gearbox is better
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 08:35 PM
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if you keep the wing loading the same, the smaller one should behave very similar to the larger one.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Here is something I've been meaning to ask

this guy seems to have an awesome collection of interesting planes, mostly jets, but there are a few ultra micros.
Ultimate Ultra Micro (Stealth Fighter) RC JET Fly's Perfect (7 min 54 sec)

what is the name of the part that controls ailerons in this video, crank bell?

The main reason I stick to this design and current location of motor is because I can't really move servos due to the fact that main brick has to be facing certain way and because control rods can only go parallel to the plane, which means I have to have ailerons that cover entire length of the trailing edge and basically have to install control horns very close to the center of trailing edge.


so far on to buy list:

- p-51 motor, by the way is any difference in parts PKZ3624 vs PKZ3624? Or is that just a product number for motor only or gear combo?

- new pushrod/linkages

- maayybe a new battery ~250-300mah, but then I have to get rid of 4 500mah that I collected over months and barely used.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 03:05 PM
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look at the prices. one they sell as just the gearbox, and its less, as it has no motor.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 03:14 PM
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You might get more efficiency and a quieter model if you move the prop to the front.

Terry
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 03:52 PM
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I've tried that a while ago, 2 problems - wire on motor is pretty short, and i don't feel like sorldering something so small to extend it. Also it really lacked in durability due to the shape of the nose, it just crumbles and snaps off on landings or minor bumps with the ground.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 08:05 AM
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With my delta I just drag in into land low and slow pulling back on both sticks about a foot up and it it just pancakes so the tail hits first. You will need the ESc near the front anyway to get the CG right so maybe you can avoid soldering.

Here's some pictures of the delta

The motor mount is ply and goes back inside the nose an inch or so. It's survived quite a few crashes. The KF wing adds a lot of stiffnes and makes it pretty much stall proof

Terry
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 11:07 AM
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that's already a whole new weight class
and my esc/rx/servos are all part of one tiny board
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 02:14 PM
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I'm thinking of using a PZ brick on a lighter version of the delta hopefully getting the weight down to about 20 grams for indoor use.

Terry
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Very nice. Just built something similar. I am curious as how I should go about mixing the champ receiver. I have found a few different answers and was unsure of what route to take. Any suggestions on how to go about this on a dx6i?
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:36 PM
Lee Liddle
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Carrollton, Tx
Joined Dec 2006
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This is a wing I built using guts from a PZ Corsair including the prop, With a 1s 300mah it weighs 38g and has a 20" span. Similar in size and weight to your plane. It flys like this on about 8w. 2a draw on the 1s lipo. Here`s a video, the camera angle is too low, but watch the whole thing and you`ll get the idea of it`s performance. I can post some simple plans if you want to build one.


Here`s a link to a post with more details and pics. Look at the 3rd entry.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1620909



20120401-235332.MOV (2 min 54 sec)
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Last edited by Knife Liddle; Apr 16, 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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