HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 22, 2012, 09:46 PM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,324 Posts
OK, here you go: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tabilizer.html

I haven't bought one yet, or seen it fly, but I have seen it in action in a full house ship being passed around during the monthly club meeting. I think it'll be OK. Either way, I'm buying one when the paychecks start coming in (Yay, I found a job!).
Lil Stinkpot is offline Find More Posts by Lil Stinkpot
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 24, 2012, 08:33 PM
Registered User
doc993's Avatar
United States, WI, Stoddard
Joined Dec 2009
1,150 Posts
Here in Eagle country I do not think you could make them fast enough.Beauty fully done.
doc993 is offline Find More Posts by doc993
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 12:39 AM
Mongo like wind. Wind Good.
V1VrV2's Avatar
Joined Apr 2004
435 Posts
Once I've got the bird flying, I have a GoPro Hero I am going to strap on to this thing and fly it here on Whidby Island, WA and try to get some video of the resident Bald Eagles coming up to it. They have come up to my other 3M ships and I've got them on video doing it. On a windy day there is one every couple minutes flying by the slope. They are very curious and yes, they can accelerate incredibly fast. If you pull a loop they just go away. I guess they figure thats just too weird.
V1VrV2 is online now Find More Posts by V1VrV2
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Birdworks RC Gull Video
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 12:46 AM
Registered User
G-LO's Avatar
Va.Beach VA.
Joined Aug 2007
2,197 Posts
Ha.. yeah birds don't like loops one bit. They seem to say: "Whatda- Oooh! I'm good"
G-LO is online now Find More Posts by G-LO
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 01:00 AM
Mongo like wind. Wind Good.
V1VrV2's Avatar
Joined Apr 2004
435 Posts
Otherwise it'll just end up like this.

V1VrV2 is online now Find More Posts by V1VrV2
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Birdworks RC Gull Video
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 25, 2012, 01:14 AM
Registered User
G-LO's Avatar
Va.Beach VA.
Joined Aug 2007
2,197 Posts
Mr.V, I sure do hope you'll enstall enuff power in you bird! That don't look too fun....
G-LO is online now Find More Posts by G-LO
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 01, 2012, 10:13 PM
Fremont, WI
United States, WI, Wild Rose
Joined Jul 2011
10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by V1VrV2 View Post
Ok. Got some more done on the prototype, the basic structure is done. Deciding right now on how to install the controls and radio gear. No shortage of space in the fuselage so that should not be a problem.

Tip feathers are screwed on with nylon bolts so they can be removed and replaced easily if damaged.
"V" that looks fantastic!

I've been working on something similar myself, but have chosen to model a redtail hawk instead. I'm a licensed falconer and regularly fly redtails so it's kind of nice to have a "living model" so to speak...

At this point, I've also chosen to use to use the same control methods, having seen the videos of this configuration being successful. I'm at the stage where I've built a small prototype and test-flown it, and made adjustments to the control surfaces to verify effectiveness (it's a hand-toss glider, not RC, at this point).

I'd like to use a more realistic method to control my glider, closer to how the real birds manipulate their wings and tail to control themselves, but haven't come up with any great options yet. Watching my birds fly, I can see they don't really use their tails like the models do, etc, but we can't change the wing shape, CoG, etc, like they can... At this point I think I'll settle for "looking realistic" and strive for "acting realistic" later.

One question... How rigid are your primaries? It looks like you have carbon fiber in them? Great idea! I may do something similar. I want to see what yours do under flight loads though. On the real birds, the primaries are "warped" downward, and only flex upward under flight loads. I've been wondering whether the molded tips would behave the same way, and wondering whether they would "flutter" uncontrollably. I've been wondering whether it would be better to make them as realistic as possible, or better to make them quite rigid and just use them for "looks".

I could photograph the actual thing, if it would help you at all...

I want to slope fly mine, but will also need to configure a hi-start option. I'm looking at the Hoey Vulture for ideas there.
Anatum is offline Find More Posts by Anatum
Last edited by Anatum; Dec 01, 2012 at 10:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 01:25 AM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,324 Posts
Anatum, I would like to see those photos, if you don't mind. I'm working on an idea of my own. Would it be possible to get a shot of a wing from the tip looking in, toward the shoulder, so to see the camber and foil? Those kinds of shots just don't seem to exist on Google.

You lucky duck, BTW. I would LOVE a falconry licence, but it is prohibitively expensive here.
Lil Stinkpot is offline Find More Posts by Lil Stinkpot
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 09:00 PM
Mongo like wind. Wind Good.
V1VrV2's Avatar
Joined Apr 2004
435 Posts
I got my falconry license in High school. Had to get an experienced falconer to sponsor me and It was ALOT of work. Took a practical written test, had my facilities inspected by the Washington Department of Fish and Game, and worst part, delt with the faceless bureaucracy and a game inspector that didn't know a red tailed hawk doesn't get its "red tail" until its adult phase. Accused me of possesion of the wrong species. I was just a dumb kid, right? Idiot...

This project stems from the earliest years of my life. I was camping with my family in Clark County Washington state and my brother and I were walking the dogs along the lake shore. I was about 12 years old at the time. I saw a dark pile of fur or feathers about 15 feet away. As I got closer I saw it was a dead Bald Eagle. White head and tail. Very large bird. I told my older brother what I found and he came over to see. It had a large hole in its body and looked to have been killed a few days earlier. We had heard someone had been killing the eagles to sell their feet and feathers at large indian pow wows. We took a stick and turned the bird over and saw it's feet were gone. Another eagle killed for greed. This practice still goes on this day. Thousands of dollars are paid for eagle parts at indian pow wows. Illegal but lucrative. Stupid.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&pg=3365,65137

http://powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=58471

http://www.nativetimes.com/archives/...eagle-poaching

http://nativetimes.com/life/culture/...rade-of-eagles

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...-in-b.c.-95961

http://www.fws.gov/pacific/lawenforcement/eaglelaws/

We called the Game Department and they came out and inspected the carcass and verified it was an illegal poach. They then left and left the carcass where it was. That really puzzled me at the time.

Anyway, this eagle is dedicated to the eagle I found on that beach years ago. That's why its so important to make it look right. I just hope it flys as good as it looks.
V1VrV2 is online now Find More Posts by V1VrV2
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by V1VrV2; Dec 03, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 10:22 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2008
638 Posts
Interesting story ... thanks for sharing.
Cap_n_Dave is offline Find More Posts by Cap_n_Dave
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 10:41 PM
Fremont, WI
United States, WI, Wild Rose
Joined Jul 2011
10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Stinkpot View Post
Anatum, I would like to see those photos, if you don't mind. I'm working on an idea of my own. Would it be possible to get a shot of a wing from the tip looking in, toward the shoulder, so to see the camber and foil? Those kinds of shots just don't seem to exist on Google.

You lucky duck, BTW. I would LOVE a falconry licence, but it is prohibitively expensive here.
Some of the best photos I've seen when it comes to modeling a gliding hawk come from online searches, unfortunately. Here are a few that I think are potentially helpful-

http://ecobirder.blogspot.com/2011_03_01_archive.html

http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/Nov-10.html

I've found a few other helpful shots, but don't have links to them at the moment.

I think the reason we have so much difficulty finding usable photos is because the shots we want are "artistically poor", and because we're specifically interested in flight attitudes that we're unlikely to see near ground level. Even with my own birds, I'm looking for photos of them flying in a manner that I really only see while training them, which I spend little time actually doing. I spend GOBS of time out hunting with them, but the type of flying they do while hunting rabbits, squirrels, and jackrabbits is a LONG way from soaring flight. I'm mainly seeing "power" flight with quite a bit of hard maneuvering. I never see soaring, but do see a fair amount of gliding. The gliding I see is up above me though, at treetop height, so it's difficult to get the direct side-profile shots I want...

I'll share what I have and/or can get though... My wife is a photo-bug, so that helps!

When it comes to airfoil and camber, it changes as it goes out from the root, and changes under different flight loads. It's actually pretty flat on the outer 1/2 of the wing, beginning where the primaries and secondaries separate. There's a lot of camber at the root.

Falconry-wise, there's obviously some expense. Looking at California's regs it doesn't look any worse there than here in Wisconsin, but the money expense isn't really what gets you... It's the several hours per day, per bird average that mounts up. My birds generally catch enough to keep themselves fed, so that's no big deal, but the gas money expenditure to keep them hunting 4-5 times/week for six months out of the year adds up. Add in all the "normal" time restraints as well (2 kids in school and sports, scouts, jobs, etc) and it can be pretty taxing. I love it though!

When it comes to the primaries flexing, this is what I'm talking about-

At rest, the primaries are actually curved downward. They only flex upward under flight loads... They also "flutter" under stress of maneuvering, so I don't really see them being used the way the Hoey Vulture twists it's primaries for roll...







In addition to the flex of the primaries, there are a few other things you can see in these photos (they're early training with a new bird, which is why she has the leash on...). For one, on the last picture she's actually "pulling up" in a curve from a low glide to come up and land on my fist. She's in an upward curve, and increasing that curve, and is "pre-flare". However, even though she's "pulling up", she's deflecting her tail DOWNWARD, which is the opposite of how an airplane would do it...

They do appear to use their tails as elevators at certain points, but it's also important to note that they often use their tails as brakes, or for balance, or even to use as "leverage" against the air, in ways that are radically different than we'd use an elevator on a plane...

It's also important to note that they can fly just fine without a tail at all...

My prototype uses a tail with hinged surfaces about identical to "V's" eagle, and I intend to use it as elevator and rudder control, but that's not quite "realistic" either...
Anatum is offline Find More Posts by Anatum
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:04 PM
Fremont, WI
United States, WI, Wild Rose
Joined Jul 2011
10 Posts
Here are a few shots of a friends eagle for comparison.

In this photo, once again the eagle is "pulling up" form a low, flat glide to swoop up onto the fist. The eagle's tail isn't really pitched up OR down yet, the bird is changing it's wings to alter it's flight direction.



You have to use the center of the bird's tail to reference the pitch; the sections that appear to be tilted upward are really the tips of the outer tail feathers which are flexing upward like the primaries are due to flight loading...

This type of tail use raises difficulty in deciding what decalage to set between the wing and tail though... What angle represents a good "neutral" position for gliding/soaring flight? I've experimented with this on hand-toss gliders and found one that works, but I don't know if it's quite "optimal" yet. I don't think we can successfully use the angles shown by these photos, because the bird isn't configured for level gliding flight... She's swooping upward to the fist, and even getting "dirty"; slowing down and preparing to flare.

In the second photo, I'm excited about the entire outer section of the wings (primaries and coverts). If you look closely, you can see that the rear edge of the primaries on the right wing are higher than the secondaries, while the same feathers on the left wing are lower than the primaries.



The "normal" neutral position of those primaries is under the secondaries (contacting them on the bottom side). This is something I see a lot, and I suspect this has an "aileron-type" effect.

I'm not sure though if the bird is using this as a "roll" control, or for or against adverse yaw, or whether they apply surface movement to create drag and "slow" a wing? It's even hard to tell in this photo... There's a LOT of wind (20+ mph), and the bird is moving into it. Maybe not DIRECTLY into it though, so there may be some crosswind effect? And this close to the falconer she may even be in turbulence from his body?

This interests me a lot though... I see this type of movement all the time from my birds, and don't see them showing any sign they control the angle of individual primaries to initiate any rolling effect. It looks to me like the whole outer 1/2 of the wing twists up or down a bit as a panel?
Anatum is offline Find More Posts by Anatum
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:24 PM
Fremont, WI
United States, WI, Wild Rose
Joined Jul 2011
10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by V1VrV2 View Post
I got my falconry license in High school. Had to get an experienced falconer to sponsor me and It was ALOT of work. Took a practical written test, had my facilities inspected by the Washington Department of Fish and Game, and worst part, delt with the faceless bureaucracy and a game inspector that didn't know a red tailed hawk doesn't get its "red tail" until its adult phase. Accused me of possesion of the wrong species. I was just a dumb kid, right? Idiot...
Yup, things are awful complicated when it comes to the gov't, and agents still seem to be not all that up-to-date when it comes to falconry knowledge.

FWIW, the redtail I'm flying this year still has a brown tail too

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1VrV2 View Post
This project stems from the earliest years of my life.
Me too! I've been playing around with test models and ideas for close to 30 years now, and have finally reached a point where I think I'll build it full size and install a radio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1VrV2 View Post
I was camping with my family in Clark County Washington state and my brother and I were walking the dogs along the lake shore. I was about 12 years old at the time. I saw a dark pile of fur or feathers about 15 feet away. As I got closer I saw it was a dead Bald Eagle. White head and tail. Very large bird. I told my older brother what I found and he came over to see. It had a large hole in its body and looked to have been killed a few days earlier. We had heard someone had been killing the eagles to sell their feet and feathers at large indian pow wows. We took a stick and turned the bird over and saw it's feet were gone. Another eagle killed for greed. This practice still goes on this day. Thousands of dollars are paid for eagle parts at indian pow wows. Illegal but lucrative. Stupid.
I used to dance at a lot of powwows and sing on a drum as a youth... I'm not going to delve into that discussion, but will say that although I heard rumors of this type of thing happening, I never actually saw any evidence of it. Eagle and other raptor parts were commonly requested from the repository though.

Regardless of the "who" or what the reason was, it's a shame that someone did that. I know of falconers that have had their birds shot and killed while out hunting or training. I had one of my birds get shot at last fall (fortunately they missed her).

Power poles and wind farms are a much bigger threat than firearms though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1VrV2 View Post
Anyway, this eagle is dedicated to the eagle I found on that beach years ago. That's why its so important to make it look right. I just hope it flys as good as it looks.
Well, it looks fantastic! I can't wait to see how it flies!
Anatum is offline Find More Posts by Anatum
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:25 PM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,324 Posts
Anatum, those pictures and explanations are great, thanks! I did do quite a bit of Googling, but you hit the problem right on -- the kind of shots I'm after aren't the kind that get posted, and are at an uncommon viewing angle. I guess I just need to stalk some red tails at th local slope.

Gorgeous bird. What's her name?
Lil Stinkpot is offline Find More Posts by Lil Stinkpot
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:31 PM
Fremont, WI
United States, WI, Wild Rose
Joined Jul 2011
10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Stinkpot View Post
Anatum, those pictures and explanations are great, thanks! I did do quite a bit of Googling, but you hit the problem right on -- the kind of shots I'm after aren't the kind that get posted, and are at an uncommon viewing angle. I guess I just need to stalk some red tails at th local slope.

Gorgeous bird. What's her name?
I named the redtail "Asker". As in, "What's her name?" "Ask'er".

I generally don't name my birds, but my wife and kids do. I couldn't resist the urge on this one though.

A recently released a redtail I named "Lady", and flew a redtail named "Belle" too. Lady was on NatGeo tv this summer in a show on forests, where she was filmed hunting squirrels. I flew her without equipment on though, so she doesn't look like a falconry bird.
Anatum is offline Find More Posts by Anatum
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Project "Bald Eagle" P51 Micro mod (1stVideo post 89). cabman1969 Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 129 Nov 20, 2011 06:32 AM
Bald Eagle grabbed my sloper! JWC Electric Sailplanes 15 Apr 01, 2008 12:09 AM