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Old Feb 10, 2012, 11:39 PM
TEAM HILLBILLY
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
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Originally Posted by Stoned doggie View Post
i got it i wasent double clicking on the copy when i put it in winrar.
Sweet
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 11:48 PM
↓↘→ + (punch)
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central PA.
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rf 5.5... 3dhs/addict

edit: closed.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 11:55 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
rf 5.5... 3dhs/addict

...happy to demonstrate all manner of rolling spins
Wish I could be there....

SteveT
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:07 AM
Team JetiUSA
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Santa Clara, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmala View Post
If I wanted a Hacker motor to run on 10S pulling about 3000 watts with a twenty something inch prop to 3D a 15 lb plane, which Hacker would I be looking at?

A60-7S?
•Peak Watts: 3000
•kV(RPM/V): 215
•Diameter: 2.36 in
•Length: 2.44 in
•Weight: 21.00 oz

A60-16M?
•Peak Watts: 3000
•kV(RPM/V): 215
•Diameter: 2.33 in
•Length: 2.77 in
•Weight: 26.50 oz

A60-20S?
•Peak Watts: 2500
•kV(RPM/V): 245
•Diameter: 2.33 in
•Length: 2.38 in
•Weight: 21.00 oz.
My Q60-F3A on 10S spinning a 21x14 carbon prop pulls just under 3000 watts at peak. Great motor!

Peter+
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:11 AM
Team JetiUSA
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Santa Clara, CA
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Originally Posted by cmala View Post
is 3000 watts more power than a 30cc gas?



Craig
A 30cc gas engine delivers on the order of 3.5HP, 746 watts = 1hp, 3000 watts = 4.02HP, so, yes :-)

Peter+
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:14 AM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
My Q60-F3A on 10S spinning a 21x14 carbon prop pulls just under 3000 watts at peak. Great motor!

Peter+
Nice cheap one too....uh huh!!

SteveT
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:20 AM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
My Q60-F3A on 10S spinning a 21x14 carbon prop pulls just under 3000 watts at peak. Great motor!

Peter+
Is that what you have in your Vanquish??

And I wish those Falcon carbon fiber props were available in 3D sizes....that prop the guy at the field showed me last week was amazingly light!!

SteveT
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 01:58 AM
Team JetiUSA
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Santa Clara, CA
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Originally Posted by cmala View Post
Ok.

Whats the lightest way to get 3000-3500 watts and decent flight times?

How do I figure this stuff?
How do I pick kv, voltage, prop size, mAh?

All I've done in the past is compare similar plane setups

Craig
It's relatively straight-forward if you know your target watts...

Watts = Amps x volts, amps = current, higher current = higher system resistance, more heat, lower efficiency and shorter battery life for a given capacity of battery, so adding voltage is a better way to increase watts than adding amps. 3000/37 (10S) = 81 amps, that's a good number, 3000/44.4 (12S) = 67 amps, also an excellent number.

At which point, of course, you have to consider what your target RPM is. Most prop manufacturers have a max RPM recommendation or formula, and you generally have a max diameter based on the airframe itself. In your case you were talking about 20" range, most props I've seen in that size range have a Max RPM in the 8000-10000 range. 8000/37 = 216kv, which puts you in the 210-220kv range where there are quite a few motors available. 8000/44.4 = 180kv, also usually pretty easy to find.

So, now you've got 10S or 12S and a 180-220kv motor target, you're looking for the lightest weight setup you can get of course, so let's take a look at batteries, the 10s setup pulls 20% more amps than the 12s, so for equivalent run times you are looking at 12s 4000mAh and 10s 5000 mAh. Let's consider some typical weights -- you're only going to be pulling around 16C, so no need to get a really beefy pack, 25C should be fine. A 5S 25C 5500 GensAce weighs 746g x2 = 1492g. A 6S 25C 4000 GensAce weighs 658g x 2 = 1316g but less than 80% of the capacity of the 5500 GensAce so you lose a little runtime, probably not much. If you are looking at a competition where volts are limited (like Precision Aerobatics) that becomes irrelevant because you are limited to 10S.

So, let's look a the motor options, you were interested in Hacker so I'll start there...

Hacker Q60-F3A, 205kV, max RPM 10000, 568g ~2800W
Hacker Q80-11S, 205kV, Max RPM 10000, 610g ~3000W
Hacker A60-14L, 192kV, Max RPM 9000, 795g, ~2600W heavy!
Hacker A60-16L, 168kV, Max RPM 9000, 795h, ~2600W

Q80-11S = 610g
10S 5500 = 1492g
205kv x 37v nominal gets you ~7600 RPM for 2102g

Q80-11S = 610g
12S 4000 = 1316g
205kv x 44.4v nominal gets you 9102 RPM for 1926g, but you are pushing toward the max RPM of the motor... I didn't see a max voltage limit on the motor, so I'll assume 12S is OK for it.

So the lightest weight answer would appear to be a Q80-11s running on 12S 4000 packs or so. 10S on the same motor would feel a little slow for most 3-D folk.

Of course, this is just an example, but it's a way to think through your power system logically. Late last year the All Things That Fly podcast had an entire episode where Lucien Miller (Innov8tive Designs) walked through the whole thinking process in a very general way, I thought it was very well done, if you want to dive deep on this.

Peter+
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 02:05 AM
Team JetiUSA
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Santa Clara, CA
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Originally Posted by SteveTtoooo View Post
Is that what you have in your Vanquish??

And I wish those Falcon carbon fiber props were available in 3D sizes....that prop the guy at the field showed me last week was amazingly light!!

SteveT
Yep, that's the vanquish, and yeah, I have a 37g falcon prop as well, though for practice I fly the 60g one (saves $20 if I dust it on a landing :-)

Falcon DOES make bigger carbon props http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=489 26x12, 24x8 or 23x10... Not quite as light, but no one makes them lighter!

Peter+
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 05:23 AM
customstandoffs
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USA, AL, Madison
Joined Dec 2007
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that makes perfect sense. Thanks for spelling it all out for me Peter +.
I was bouncing all around what I needed but with the way you explained it now I can research some motors, esc's and batteries, populate a spreadsheet and figure out what I want.

How would I calculate flight time? I'm still finding myself drifting back and forth between gas and electric and I think the main advantage f
or gas, for me, would be run time.
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 05:27 AM
customstandoffs
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USA, AL, Madison
Joined Dec 2007
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I think if I could get 8 + minutes with electric then flight times dont factor in as much.
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 07:36 AM
Well, now that you know ...
Bigster's Avatar
Grafton, Massachusetts, United States
Joined Sep 2004
5,605 Posts
If your interested in hearing someone explain all that stuff, download the "battery episode" (I think that was the name) from the All Things That Fly podcast. Lucien Miller goes through sizing motors, batteries, etc. Although Peter did a great job explaining it.
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 08:08 AM
Time To Fly The Best!
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Hills of Eastern Ohio
Joined Nov 2008
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Ok, what if you want to run Two 6S 5000's in an 89 Slick as 12S?
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 08:57 AM
Fly low or fly home.
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United States, PA, Dover
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plank420 View Post
Sweet
Yea its also the orange aj slick scheme, got it from dflyer.


Well now that i got another iphone i can keep up with this thread on the go! Its just now i have to catch up on this from like tuesday night, which is like 40+ pages, is any of it worth reading, because i am thinking that it may not be worth it.
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 09:05 AM
TEAM HILLBILLY
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Mar 2010
4,416 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoned doggie View Post
Yea its also the orange aj slick scheme, got it from dflyer.


Well now that i got another iphone i can keep up with this thread on the go! Its just now i have to catch up on this from like tuesday night, which is like 40+ pages, is any of it worth reading, because i am thinking that it may not be worth it.
Just skip through Aronphs posts, Then it's only like 5 pages
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