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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:11 AM
Registered User
United States, NC, Robbins
Joined Jul 2008
660 Posts
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Originally Posted by joesmith285 View Post
This is something that I have had the chance to chat about with the pilots who are leading the pack for planes and helis right now. The general consensus is that you should really shoot for the lowest possible expo that you can learn to fly with. Expo doesn't solve a twitchyness problem, all it does is move the twitchyness to a different location. The less expo you use, the linear the travel will be. I was really shocked to hear how little expo the top pilots use such as Nick Maxwell and Daniel Holman. Unfortunately all my planes are around 65 on all of the surfaces

The best thing to do imo is to find your sweet spot. Keep adjusting by little amounts until you feel comfortable. If I drop to 60 or increase to 70, I become terrible uncomfortable.

If you are new to the whole expo thing then you might not find a sweet spot and will just get use to the value you are using. In that case, get compfy with a lower value. The lower the better imo.
I fly with Aurora 9,and my expo is 65 on high,and what I call stupid rates, around 35 on low rates. I can't understand why my planes won't fly like Joe's
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:25 AM
Riley O'Brien
obrieri's Avatar
Waverly, NE
Joined Jul 2008
507 Posts
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Originally Posted by cale10 View Post
BTW guys can using less expo on te sime transfer over to real life?
Yep, Expo on the sim(phoenix or realflight) is usually pretty accurate.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:37 AM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
I'm suprised to hear about how many people fly with such low expo! I thought that I was in the minority by typically flying in the mid to low 60's on most planes but it sounds like I'm actually on the high end of the range!!

I usually start out at 75 all the way around and then work my way down to what feels right. If you're not careful then expo can actually make you think you need more when you need less. I was struggling with flying my nano CPx in the house until I started experimenting with expo. I found that I actually had too much and I eventually settled on no expo for indoor flying and only about 10 or so for outdoor flying. The expo was causing me to chase the heli around a lot and when eliminating it I found that I had the control I was looking for.

On my planes I find that I typically like lower expo on my rudder and a little higher expo on my ailerons while the elevator is right in the middle somewhere.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:40 AM
Riley O'Brien
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Waverly, NE
Joined Jul 2008
507 Posts
I don't like having to crank on the sticks to get the deflection I need. I usually try to find a "sweet spot" where the center is soft enough that it isn't twitchy but not so much expo that that I need to bang the sticks around to get it to respond.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:48 AM
doh!
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United States, AR, Little Rock
Joined May 2006
4,484 Posts
40-45 for high rates is my typical expo. Then adjust from there, some planes if I find myself 'chasing the sweet spot' in a hover or other move, I'll bump up the expo. Others might feel dead, and I lower the expo a bit. This is on a JR9503.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:49 AM
Stick banger
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USA, AZ, Chandler
Joined Oct 2004
1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugocraft View Post
With helicopters I run <10% expo and 3d planes <45% expo. Since I'm low with helicopters maybe I need to try lower with the planks
Helicopter blades stay at relatively low angles of attack in their flow, so over the range of deflection the force generated is still fairly linear with deflection. Therefore the pitch/roll rate of the heli will be close to linearly proportional to the transmitter stick position. This lends itself well to low expo, since it behaves how you think it should. Airplane surfaces are not full moving like a heli blade, only part of the surface deflects, so you aren't changing the angle of attack of the surface, you are effectively changing the camber of the airfoil on that surface. This tends to result in pitch/roll responses that are not that close to linearly proportional to stick position, so some level of expo helps maintain that "linear" response feeling. Also with the massive deflections on most 3-d planes, the response is very non-linear since you will end up stalling the surface at some deflection, totally changing the slope of the response beyond that deflection.

I run low expo on helis (0-30%) and moderate on 3-d planes (30-50%). That is what "feels" the best to me personally. There is no right answer, though, you just have to fly what feels comfortable to you. I was surprised to learn that several of the IMAC unlimited pilots at the contest I went to use 50-60% expo on their low rates, it's all a personal preference and there is no right answer.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:52 AM
Redwing FTW
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United States, IN, Fort Wayne
Joined Nov 2008
1,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace4 View Post
Helicopter blades stay at relatively low angles of attack in their flow, so over the range of deflection the force generated is still fairly linear with deflection. Therefore the pitch/roll rate of the heli will be close to linearly proportional to the transmitter stick position. This lends itself well to low expo, since it behaves how you think it should. Airplane surfaces are not full moving like a heli blade, only part of the surface deflects, so you aren't changing the angle of attack of the surface, you are effectively changing the camber of the airfoil on that surface. This tends to result in pitch/roll responses that are not that close to linearly proportional to stick position, so some level of expo helps maintain that "linear" response feeling. Also with the massive deflections on most 3-d planes, the response is very non-linear since you will end up stalling the surface at some deflection, totally changing the slope of the response beyond that deflection.

I run low expo on helis (0-30%) and moderate on 3-d planes (30-50%). That is what "feels" the best to me personally. There is no right answer, though, you just have to fly what feels comfortable to you. I was surprised to learn that several of the IMAC unlimited pilots at the contest I went to use 50-60% expo on their low rates, it's all a personal preference and there is no right answer.
Very informative post. Thanks for taking the time to post that!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:58 AM
Riley O'Brien
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Waverly, NE
Joined Jul 2008
507 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace4 View Post
Helicopter blades stay at relatively low angles of attack in their flow, so over the range of deflection the force generated is still fairly linear with deflection. Therefore the pitch/roll rate of the heli will be close to linearly proportional to the transmitter stick position. This lends itself well to low expo, since it behaves how you think it should. Airplane surfaces are not full moving like a heli blade, only part of the surface deflects, so you aren't changing the angle of attack of the surface, you are effectively changing the camber of the airfoil on that surface. This tends to result in pitch/roll responses that are not that close to linearly proportional to stick position, so some level of expo helps maintain that "linear" response feeling. Also with the massive deflections on most 3-d planes, the response is very non-linear since you will end up stalling the surface at some deflection, totally changing the slope of the response beyond that deflection.

I run low expo on helis (0-30%) and moderate on 3-d planes (30-50%). That is what "feels" the best to me personally. There is no right answer, though, you just have to fly what feels comfortable to you. I was surprised to learn that several of the IMAC unlimited pilots at the contest I went to use 50-60% expo on their low rates, it's all a personal preference and there is no right answer.
Yes very well put.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:58 AM
Aerobatic Fanatic
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United States, KY, Louisville
Joined Sep 2007
2,892 Posts
Yes very well put Ace since that makes sense why I'm happy with the feel on helicopters and airplanes but with different expos.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:53 PM
Team Hillbilly
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United States, OH, New Albany
Joined Jun 2006
418 Posts
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Originally Posted by hugocraft View Post
Full scale aerobatic news posted 4 hours ago on Facebook from Skip Stewart:

"There is a lot of false information about Kirby out there. I was flying off his wing practicing a dual routine when it happened. So this is the correct information. We were flying a formation high alpha pass. At the end of the runway Kirby's engine quit. There was nowhere to land. He descended into a rocky ravine and crashed onto the side of a steep embankment. I was watching him the whole way. The plane crashed into small trees and flipped over. The airplane was badly damaged, but Kirby extracted himself and walked to a clearing. I had immediately called for the rescue helicopter and they were there very quickly. A testament to the readiness of the El Salvadorian military. Kirby is fine with superficial scrapes and bruises."

Kirby as in Kirby Chambliss and I'm glad he's okay!
I put my Edge 540 in a tree last year. It looked about the same as Kirby's. Of course, I was standing on the ground when it happened.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:55 PM
Time To Fly The Best!
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Hills of Eastern Ohio
Joined Nov 2008
13,896 Posts
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Originally Posted by blaiss View Post
I put my Edge 540 in a tree last year. It looked about the same as Kirby's. Of course, I was standing on the ground when it happened.
I hate that one tree!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:30 PM
Registered Crasher
United States, TX, Coppell
Joined Feb 2011
2,226 Posts
I'm just gonna put a challenge out there:

$20 to the first pilot that does an "inverted hover" 30s or longer at the FLI in grapvine. Nose down, stationary. Video required.

I think it's possible, but somebody needs to make it happen!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:42 PM
Team CJ Youngblood
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United States, WV, Wheeling
Joined Jul 2009
1,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
I'm just gonna put a challenge out there:

$20 to the first pilot that does an "inverted hover" 30s or longer at the FLI in grapvine. Nose down, stationary. Video required.

I think it's possible, but somebody needs to make it happen!
You could always reverse the motor wires and drop the airplane from another airplane.


Do helicopters count?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:01 PM
Registered User
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United States, WV, Clay
Joined Sep 2012
3,051 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by heritageflyer View Post
I hate that one tree!
just in my short time flying ive had 2 trees reach out and grab my planes. luckily so far it has been on foamys
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:07 PM
3D, 1D at a time!
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United States, TX, Plano
Joined Aug 2010
4,029 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor996 View Post
I'm just gonna put a challenge out there:

$20 to the first pilot that does an "inverted hover" 30s or longer at the FLI in grapvine. Nose down, stationary. Video required.

I think it's possible, but somebody needs to make it happen!
I'm going to put an engine on the back of a plane
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