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Old Mar 09, 2012, 03:13 PM
addicted to the sound ehhhhhhh
Joined Dec 2011
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first wing completed yester day and the cord length was off about 3/8ths of an inch from the right side to the left.

I'm assuming my measure ments on the scoring line were off so ill try again being very precise.

anyone else have this problem?
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 04:13 PM
Smashes Things
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Montpelier, VA
Joined Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by ExperimentalAir View Post
I think you're kind of on the right track, but there may be a couple of more direct ways of thinking about getting better control authority.

The simplest one, which you mention, would be to reduce your aspect ratio by increasing chord and/or reducing wingspan, plus using amply sized control surfaces - like 1 1/2" - with generous throws. This will give you much more roll control authority. For pitch it's mostly a matter of elevator size, throw, and distance from the CG - the more of each the better the pitch control.

Second, wing loading has a lot to do with the "floatiness" of a plane, so perhaps you just need relatively smaller wings, or more weight on board, for any given plane. The expense will be an inherently faster flying plane. I'm not sure that's what you want in an enclosed area though.

As for literally adding drag in order to require more power I think that's kind of the realm of some profile foamy 3-D planes, which I do not fly. They appear to be incredibly agile and good for tight spaces but I have to think they wouldn't do so well in the wind.

As a general rule keeping the CG generously forward will help with native pitch stability (well, yaw too) as well as "making you fly a little faster" at trim, which can improve control authority.

Sorry that's kind of all over the place. Maybe you could post photos of your planes and the pros and cons as you perceive them and we can make some detailed suggestions.

Peace,
Ed
Thanks for your kind offer and the effort you put into this post. I decided to experiment ( ) some more before bothering you all with more information. I have been through engine changes, weight shifts, props and props and am having fun.

In the end, it seems that I need a higher pitch and less diameter to have a better airflow over the control surfaces and a better handling. Not exactly sure why ,but it is flying well.

Again, thanks but no thanks Ed!

Dave
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 05:01 PM
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Joined May 2006
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Hi Ed;
Where can I see a video of you building a canard? I'm
concerned about how to find the CG.

Bob
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 06:18 PM
Smashes Things
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Montpelier, VA
Joined Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61rcpilot View Post
Hi Ed;
Where can I see a video of you building a canard? I'm
concerned about how to find the CG.

Bob
Hey, Ed can respond, but somewhere in his videos I saw his discussion of this. He says there is a calculator somewhere out there for CG location, use that but make sure to go quite a bit nose heavy for the maiden and give it a few clicks of up before you take off. That will let you start getting into the ballpark.
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 07:11 PM
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Canada, AB, Olds
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A canard cg calculator is available at http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg_canard.htm

It will yield an answer for the Peace Drone of about 15" forward from the rear-end although experience is indicating that 16-17" forward may well work better. YMMV.
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 01:05 PM
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North Kent, England UK
Joined Jan 2005
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Here is how I did my dihedral on a wing:

I had two carbon rods in each wing half, the main spar and a short one, I drilled a hole the size of the rod lengthwise through four pieces of 1/2 in hardwood about 3/4 in long.

Slide them on the rods then get four pieces of thin ply to attach the blocks to.

Set the dihedral you want then coat the rods and verticle surfaces of the blocks with epoxy, clamp between the pieces of ply and the dihedral is done.

Sounds complicated but is easy to do, I had a space between the wings of just under the width of the fuselage, after it was all set I covered with 3mm depron.

Sorry I cannot supply a photo as it is all boxed in now.
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 05:24 PM
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United States, NY, New York
Joined Nov 2011
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Hey Ed, as I promised, here is a how-to on my tapered wing using your techniques
Bajiwing: How to


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Old Mar 11, 2012, 07:40 AM
Ed @ Experimental Airlines
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Sep 2011
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tapered swept wing

Quote:
Originally Posted by templton89 View Post
Hey Ed, as I promised, here is a how-to on my tapered wing using your techniques
Bajiwing: How to
Hey guys, this seems like a very understated posting by templton89 but I do recommend checking out his thread for what I believe to be the most well-developed and successful suggestion yet for tapered, swept foamboard wing.

Ed
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 07:46 AM
Ed @ Experimental Airlines
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61rcpilot View Post
Hi Ed;
Where can I see a video of you building a canard? I'm
concerned about how to find the CG.

Bob
Our other friends are all over it before me - use the calculator and go 2" forward.

I don't have a build video yet but will make a build-along for my next one. I will be making another brand new Peace Drone from scratch for my long-range rig to hold the DragonLink, 2.4GHz video, OSD, and other stuff brought by Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy. Give me maybe 3 weeks?

Ed
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 07:48 AM
Ed @ Experimental Airlines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by englanito View Post
first wing completed yester day and the cord length was off about 3/8ths of an inch from the right side to the left.

I'm assuming my measure ments on the scoring line were off so ill try again being very precise.

anyone else have this problem?
I've had it happen to a lesser degree, and indeed it was due to measurement inaccuracy. The leading edge bend is a spot where you might introduce some asymmetry it's not folded nicely parallel to the score line. After your third wing you'll be a pro, and build one in half the time of the first one.
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:01 AM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by englanito View Post
first wing completed yester day and the cord length was off about 3/8ths of an inch from the right side to the left.

I'm assuming my measure ments on the scoring line were off so ill try again being very precise.

anyone else have this problem?
IMO, don't worry about it, you'll never notice the difference in flight. When it happens to me I just trim some off the larger side.

lazy bones here....
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by englanito View Post
first wing completed yester day and the cord length was off about 3/8ths of an inch from the right side to the left.

I'm assuming my measure ments on the scoring line were off so ill try again being very precise.

anyone else have this problem?
I had exactly the same problem on my first wing with two sections but I have a fix that seems to work for me. When I first fold the wing closed (after the spacers and the spar are in place), I mark a line along where I have sanded the wing bottom and the underside of what will become the aileron meet. Then I unfold the wing again and measure to see that this line is truly parallel to the edge of the paper on the bottom section of the wing. If it isn't quite parallel I draw a line that is and then fold the wing to that second line... then I am seldom off by more than 1/32". Might work for you.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 01:46 PM
Ed @ Experimental Airlines
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United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by 61rcpilot View Post
Hi Ed;
Great videos,(nice hair,ha,ha), I've been balsa building for 25 yrs.
and have now been turned on to foam board......... Keep the videos coming
Bob
Ha-ha, yes, I got tired of looking at my noggin too, have moved the camera rig out a bit. Still figuring this out.

Good to hear your success on the planes. The fuselage tubes can come out a tiny bit asymmetrical until you get some practice. Measure accurately, bend a consistent way, and be sure to line up the ends on the joining procedure (that's where a "twist" can occur). Any slight out-of-squareness can often be gently smushed into a square, against a door jamb or the corner of a room where the walls meet.

Have fun, show us what you make!
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 09:18 AM
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How would you do a fully-symetrical wing?
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
Out the Window
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North Central Florida
Joined Jul 2004
1,271 Posts
I rebuilt/upgraded a wrecked HobbyZone Super Cub. It has all new electronics in it. It flys fine, but will not do rolls. This is probably because I left the diheadral in the wing. I put wood spars in the wing for strength, so it would be a job to redo the wing. I am thinking aow about one of these Armin wings?? Maybe make one without diheadral and larger ailerons. The Super Cub wing is about 7 inches by 48 inches and about 1.5 inches thick at the thickest part of the wing.

Here is what I am thinking. Make the wing 40" to 48" long. Make the center of the wing 7" cord and add 1.5" ailerons on both sides of the 7". That would make most of the wing 8.5" cord.

With the Armin I could just add a couple of servos and use the rest of the SuperCub.

What do you think.....any ideas??

Ray
PS....really great videos....maybe build a Axon, but I need to order a faster motor!!
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Last edited by High Flyin'; Mar 13, 2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Added Photos
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