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Old Feb 02, 2013, 11:55 PM
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Nightstone's Avatar
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Elevon DX6i Thread...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=940867

Brownout vid that will really question owning one.

RCDOX 2012 DX6i brown out problem Rx Tx link RC plane (6 min 8 sec)


Lots and lots of brownout vids and very angry folks on youtube. Just do a DX6i Brownout search .

Nightstone

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarfer View Post
Funny, my first tx was a DX6i, and my first plane was a wing like a Zagi. I had no trouble setting up the elevons after reading the manual



hmmm. IIRC manual says to mount the servos with arms facing outward, and right hand servo into the AIL socket. Usually works. However, I have found that an elevon setup that works on my DX6i will need the plugs changed around to work with my DSX9.



Strange, on my DX6i (purchased 2008), on which I just checked, the moment you select elevon mode the aileron and elevator travels are automatically reduced to 50%, as indicated on the 'monitor' screen, so max stick travel to a corner only gives 100% max servo travel. This is usually just fine for elevon planes because they are pitch sensitive, though you may want to increase aileron rate mechanically and reduce elevator in 'dual rates' to get a faster roll rate. Or you can do a custom mix to get any ratio you want, I did that to get much more roll rate on my wing once I'd learnt to fly.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bhcnomo View Post
some more work done on the Synapse build
Thatīs looking real good bhcnomo
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Elevon DX6i Thread...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=940867

Brownout vid that will really question owning one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoPrTqH0M80

Lots and lots of brownout vids and very angry folks on youtube. Just do a DX6i Brownout search .

Nightstone
In your video the young lady mentioned something about the Lipos being as a possible cause of your problems? Iīve been using the same Lipos regularly for over two years, so I donīt see that as a problem and I have never heard of a Lipo being responsible for a brown out! Wow she is so articulate in front of the camera, you must be real proud of her. Are you using the correct ESC for the setup and are you using the recommended prop for the motor size? if not your motor will be over working and everything will get real hot !!
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:54 PM
Fan of experimetalairlines
Australia, NSW, Sydney
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Originally Posted by jetcommander View Post
In your video the young lady mentioned something about the Lipos being as a possible cause of your problems? Iīve been using the same Lipos regularly for over two years, so I donīt see that as a problem and I have never heard of a Lipo being responsible for a brown out! Wow she is so articulate in front of the camera, you must be real proud of her. Are you using the correct ESC for the setup and are you using the recommended prop for the motor size? if not your motor will be over working and everything will get real hot !!
I was running an under-spec ESC for my Noob, I thought I was getting brown outs but it was actually the ESC overheating and shutting down. Once I swapped out the ESC for a bigger one I have not had any more problems.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:57 PM
Fan of experimetalairlines
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Jan 2012
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Maiden of my P-51

The parts from Hobbyking arrived sooner than expected so I was able to finish building my P-51 and maiden it today in very windy conditions.

It flew well despite the wind and almost hovered in for the landing, it was a bit bumpy but the plane survived the maiden without incident

Maiden of homebuilt foamboard P-51 (3 min 3 sec)


Second flight, motor cuts out when I try to go full throttle. The ESC burnt out.

P-51 motor cuts out mid-flight (2 min 51 sec)
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Last edited by rcnewbieoz; Feb 04, 2013 at 06:22 PM. Reason: updated video
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:59 AM
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Nightstone's Avatar
United States, AZ, Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcommander View Post
In your video the young lady mentioned something about the Lipos being as a possible cause of your problems? Iīve been using the same Lipos regularly for over two years, so I donīt see that as a problem and I have never heard of a Lipo being responsible for a brown out! Wow she is so articulate in front of the camera, you must be real proud of her. Are you using the correct ESC for the setup and are you using the recommended prop for the motor size? if not your motor will be over working and everything will get real hot !!
Lol... She is not my kid. Thats one of the vids I found when looking. Those same issues they were having were happening to me as well as many others. But only with the DX6i not the DX8 as the video shows.

My DX6i issues came in 2 flavors. #1 Slow reconnect time - You loose connectivity and by the time you regain control plane is a few feet from the ground going 50+ mph. Instant wreck. #2 Brownouts caused by crappy linear Becs built into cheap Esc's. Often the Bec ratings were incorrect and were no where near where they were rated as.

My solutions were solved by using external Becs and going with a better radio with a very fast reconnect time. Hundreds of flights later with not one disconnect or crash from any of those issues.

I use the cheap OrangeRX DSM2 receivers and a 3a or 5a external Becs.

Now if I can get Hobby King Esc's to last a bit longer. Blew a FET today in a puff of smoke just as I hooked the battery up. At least it happend on the ground and not in flight...

Nightstone
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 03:31 AM
David the Swarfer
South Africa, EC, Grahamstown
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Elevon DX6i Thread...
Brownout vid that will really question owning one.
Lots and lots of brownout vids and very angry folks on youtube. Just do a DX6i Brownout search .
Nightstone
brownouts are when the receiver loses power because the rather simple instructions for supplying reliable power to the receiver were not followed. how does this relate to the transmitter being used?

terms for transmission loss are 'frame loss', which happens all the time, and 'hold' which happens when a certain high number of frames are lost, all in a row. losses and holds are not usually caused by any one source, but instead by a larger coalition of system problems (like me turning my transmitter off in flight instead of hitting the elevator trim).

One cannot analyse the real problems if the incorrect terminology is used by some people so I try to be careful about the meanings. I write software and when a user reports a bug using the wrong terms it takes 3 times as long to find the actual problem.

I bought the DX6i in 2008, started flying in 2009. Never a problem with the radio. I had one surpise landing when the park fly receiver (ie short range by definition) lost the signal because I let it get far away and edge on to me. my fault, not equipment. I knew the orientation of the antenna in the plane, I knew it was far off, I could have done something before it lost the signal, but I did not so I got to walk and fetch the plane to try again.

However, I agree the elevon programming could be better
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcnewbieoz View Post
The parts from Hobbyking arrived sooner than expected so I was able to finish building my P-51 and maiden it today in very windy conditions.

It flew well despite the wind and almost hovered in for the landing, it was a bit bumpy but the plane survived the maiden without incident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJFD...=youtube_gdata
Hey good day mate! as they say down under She flew thatīs just great, must have been a lot of fun? Thanks for sharing.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 04:20 AM
Old_Robin
United Kingdom, England, Oxon
Joined Aug 2012
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swarfer - Thanks for the comments. Clearly experience counts and I stand corrected. But finding this out seemed so difficult without airing it for a noobie. Old_Robin
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 11:26 AM
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Joined Nov 2011
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successfull experiment

I was always amazed at amount of work and patience that goes into cutting ribs and sections of airfoil out of depron or plywood and then skinning them with monokote or something similar. However I never had tools, materials, or time to make something like that. So I thought why not take some of Ed's techniques and apply them to this old school method.

I had a bit of 9mm depron laying around and a hot wire cutter I made recently.

First I made 9 sections for each wing in 3D, printed them out on heavy paper (card stock) and glued them to depron. Advantage of designing wing in 3D first is the ability to calculate how much longer the top surface should be.
After 20min with a hot wire I had fairly decent ribs. To make wing lighter than usual I left paper only on bottom part of the inside. The outside is covered with clear tape, and to my surprise this tape stuck to foam really well. I used Cheap 30" carbon arrow shaft as a spar and some small pieces of carbon strip to reinforce the areas that will have rubber bands over them (didn't want rubber bands cutting into the wing).

So far these wings weigh 135 grams with spar installed. I guess with airlerons attached, servos and control rods it will be something like 170g for 2 fully built wings.
Overall wingspan will be 40", root cord is 10", tip 7". Ailerons taper from 2" to 1".
Took me about 2 hrs to make them, I didn't even have to unfold my work bench, did everything on my lap, super easy.

Fuselage will be based on slow stick fuselage boom
https://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?i...6&pid=E3625178
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:53 PM
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Nice job templton89, although the Armin wing may well be a little heavier it will surely be a lot stronger and most importantly much quicker to make, but whatever turns you on!
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Last edited by jetcommander; Feb 04, 2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 01:57 PM
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Oklahoma
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Brownouts have absolutely nothing to do with the transmitter being used, its a failure to maintain voltage to the receiver, and a DX8 won't reconnect any faster than a DX6i. Brownouts are a battery or ESC problem, they don't have anything to do with the radio being used.

Now we can get back on the topic of Experimental Airlines and their planes and construction techniques.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:27 PM
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Nightstone's Avatar
United States, AZ, Phoenix
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarfer View Post
brownouts are when the receiver loses power because the rather simple instructions for supplying reliable power to the receiver were not followed. how does this relate to the transmitter being used?

terms for transmission loss are 'frame loss', which happens all the time, and 'hold' which happens when a certain high number of frames are lost, all in a row. losses and holds are not usually caused by any one source, but instead by a larger coalition of system problems (like me turning my transmitter off in flight instead of hitting the elevator trim).

One cannot analyse the real problems if the incorrect terminology is used by some people so I try to be careful about the meanings. I write software and when a user reports a bug using the wrong terms it takes 3 times as long to find the actual problem.

I bought the DX6i in 2008, started flying in 2009. Never a problem with the radio. I had one surpise landing when the park fly receiver (ie short range by definition) lost the signal because I let it get far away and edge on to me. my fault, not equipment. I knew the orientation of the antenna in the plane, I knew it was far off, I could have done something before it lost the signal, but I did not so I got to walk and fetch the plane to try again.

However, I agree the elevon programming could be better
It was a two part issue for me. Brownouts and reconnect time. In the vid I posted above the person had the same issues I did. DX6i Looses connectivity while the DX8 does not. Same plane and gear used. Only one thing to blame here.

Secondly if you brownout and loose connectivity it is directly related to how fast the transmitter reconnects. If your reconnect is slow you impact the ground.

External bec fixed the brownouts but not the slow reconnect time. Way too many folks have reported this for it to be fiction. I have a vid of my son inlaw flying a f-22 where he looses connectivity for several seconds. He regains control just before impact.

DX8 = No issues. Your mileage may vary.

Nightstone
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wingman26 View Post
Brownouts have absolutely nothing to do with the transmitter being used, its a failure to maintain voltage to the receiver, and a DX8 won't reconnect any faster than a DX6i. Brownouts are a battery or ESC problem, they don't have anything to do with the radio being used.

Now we can get back on the topic of Experimental Airlines and their planes and construction techniques.
Than explain why the in the vid above the DX6i has reconnect issues and the DX8 does not? Same plane, same equipment only difference is the transmitter. One reconnects now the other takes a few seconds. Same thing I experienced.

Nightstone
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:45 PM
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
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Originally Posted by Nightstone View Post
Than explain why the in the vid above the DX6i has reconnect issues and the DX8 does not? Same plane, same equipment only difference is the transmitter. One reconnects now the other takes a few seconds. Same thing I experienced.

Nightstone
I think this is really getting off topic, maybe the discussion can be moved to the Radios thread where it belongs.

I come here to see great planes being made and flown using Ed's technique
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