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Old Oct 31, 2001, 05:21 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
Plane Crazy's Avatar
Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
1,137 Posts
Y/A F18 200 watts per pound

My YA F18 has been gathering dust in the garage for over 2 months waiting for an Aveox 1412 2Y motor. Well I got tired of waiting, and canceled my Aveox order. Nothing sits this long in my garage with out the urge to make changes.

I swapped over to the zapped 1700 cells and soldered groups of cells from the motors forward to cut down on the battery lead lengths. The plane needed more nose weight to balance so I added more cells. I am now at 2 26 cell packs with no change to the planes overall weight of 13.2 lbs.

After alot of calculations I ordered a pair of Hacker B50-12XL (1315Kv)Brushless motors and Future 55 bo ESCs. The B50-12XL is kind of in between an Aveox1412 2Y and a 1415 2Y. A little bit longer and a little bit heavier than a 1412 2Y but not a 1415 2Y.

Static draw should be around 50.9 amps, 1363 watts per side. Or a whopping total of 2726 watts. 206 watts per pound and .89 thrust to weight. Not quite unlimited vertical but should zip and zing pretty good. About as close as I can come to a flying welder.

Unfortunately the Hackers will not be delivered and installed in time for the Arizona Jet Rally. What a bummer!!!!!

Gordon
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Old Oct 31, 2001, 05:34 PM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
7,913 Posts
Hacker Motors

Gordon,
Who did you order the motors from? I'm using the B50-13XL motor in my F-86. On 18 cells I'n turning 20700RPM at 39 AMPs. The Averox 1412/2Y was pulling 58 AMPs at 21400 RPMs. I only lost 700 RPM but dropped 20 AMPs. Flying it this weekend.
Good Luck!
Bob Ruff
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Old Oct 31, 2001, 07:36 PM
shut up & fly
hoser's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
3,804 Posts
WOW Bob that's an impressive performance gain with those hacker motors. I'm guessing that those specs are on the 730 fan and not the midi fan.

Gordon aren't you using midi fans on the F-18 ? I noticed Bob uses a different wind, I was wondering how you got your specs because the 50A seems so high ?

flying welder is right
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Old Oct 31, 2001, 08:02 PM
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Ed Waldrep's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 1996
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Maybe you could run both motors since they are so close together and asymmetric thrust wont be much of a problem? Well it's probably a bad idea but I'm good at coming up with those sometimes
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Old Oct 31, 2001, 09:33 PM
p471701
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yikes! 200w per pound and 13 pounds. if your electricity goes off at home you can power it with the f/a18 too bad about the hacker delay, bring to to arizona anyway so we can lust after it.........gregg
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Old Oct 31, 2001, 11:30 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
Plane Crazy's Avatar
Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
1,137 Posts
Hoser- To me the amp draw seemed conservative and speculative. Until I get the motors in an run the wattmeter test I won’t know exactly what it will be. The F18 on Midi fans, 1412 2ys and 20 cells drew 41 amps at about 836 watts each hole. At 22 cells the 1412 2Y drew 44 amps. The Hacker with a little bit lower Kv of 1315 and an increase to 26 cells will be some where in the realm of 46 to 50.9 amps. If it is on the low end then as Kevin Cox says “add a cell or two”.

My main goal was to find a motor that could take the punishment of 1320 watts, cell counts up to 30 cells, reasonable amp draw for a little bit of duration,and give me the rpms and thrust near the limits of the midi fan. The B50-13XL is the motor used in the big Rafale on 29 cell packs drawing 57 amps on a 100mm fan. On the 100 mm fan the B50-12XL drew 72 amps on 30 cells.

So here we go talking major watts on a brushless motor again.

The hard part is charging these large packs. Talk about a drain on a car battery.

Gordon
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Old Nov 01, 2001, 10:39 AM
Official Boat Bum
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United States, NV, Reno
Joined Mar 2000
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Gordon, you are just transferring your car battery into the model, in it's entierty, that's all....

Ed
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Old Nov 01, 2001, 04:47 PM
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Kevin Murray's Avatar
USA, NC, Greenville
Joined Dec 1999
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Gordon, I've read all of your other Y/A F18 thread earler this week, at least what is left after the great hard drive crach.

Wha t BIG Rafale is it that you have mentioned in this thread ?
Do you have two big EDF ?
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Old Nov 01, 2001, 05:04 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
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Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
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Kevin Murray- The Rafale that I was talking about is dicussed in the thread that Herb started Looks like she flew...

One of these biggies a year is about all I can handle.

Gordon
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Old Nov 02, 2001, 09:18 AM
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Joined Dec 1999
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Thanks, Godron. That's one awsome Raf.
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Old Nov 02, 2001, 10:51 AM
EDF Head
Haldor's Avatar
Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
7,999 Posts
Sounds awesome G! Give those Hackers the juice and let the F18 rip - watch out for the flutter though

-Haldor
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Old Nov 06, 2001, 01:34 PM
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TedLarson's Avatar
Los Altos, CA
Joined Sep 2001
607 Posts
Very good Gordon! I am anxious to see how the Hackers work for you. I still haven't decided on motors yet, so now I have a tester to watch...Yay! Where did you order them from?

Those CP-1700 cells are totally the way to go. The difference in weight with a big pack is huge! I wish they would make a higher cap. cell in that same 4/5 size. I am thinking about switching to the CP-1700 cells on my Mustang which flies with 22xRC2400 cells. I am sure the weight savings will be massive there as well.

Anyway. It will be really cool to see that 13 pound monster go verticle with that much power.

Good Luck!

- Ted
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Old Nov 06, 2001, 07:28 PM
Scott Black, Montreal
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montreal quebec Canada
Joined Sep 1999
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I have been flying the CP1700s for much of this season and I would like to pass along a couple of observations. First, they are really about 1500mah under our loads. Just like the RC2400s are really 2200s. These cells probably put out their nominal capacity when discharged at a few hundred ma but at 30 or 40 amps that is all you get.

Second, there are a few guys who have burned them up by pushing them hard. They seem to have internal resistance values somewhat higher than the 1250s. I make sure to cool mine between flights with a fan, as I think I am into the 40 amp range (not sure). But lately they have been falling off. I am not sure why this is and will investigate this winter. Other guys are using them at ridiculous current draws and say they are fine. I don't know why the discrepancy. Steve Neu has apparently discussed this in S&EM but I haven't read is column. Maybe there is less consistency in the mfg of these cells? So be careful and don't assume that you can beat the crap out of them and they will just take it. Try to cool them down after the flight. Remember that they get their hottest shortly AFTER you land.

So be aware that you will not have nearly the flight time with the CP1700s and that they might not have the "punch" of the 2400s. Actually, I believe the 2400s still have the best power density and are the cells best capable of taking our sort of abuse.

However, if you want to fly and shed some weight and don't mind giving up duration to gain performance, this is a good way to do it. By throttling back after a low pass you can still have a reasonable flight time. That is what I have done with the Hacker-powered Sabre. It is now 150 W/lb+ and is a ball to fly. I still get 4 minute+ flights.
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Last edited by sblack; Nov 06, 2001 at 07:32 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 03:26 PM
Flying Welder Pilot
Plane Crazy's Avatar
Reno, Nevada
Joined Jan 2001
1,137 Posts
HERE A HACKER THERE A HACKER.....

Oh My Santa dropped off my Hackers and Future bo 55 ESCs yesterday. They took 2 weeks to get from ICARE to Reno. Had a good experience ordering from ICARE. I had to review this thread to try and remember what I was doing to the YA FA 18.

So now I have no excuse to get cracking and get the mods made.

After reading the thread about our jets are cheap. I will have to say that the YA F18 is not a cheap EDF. The power system totals close to $1614.00 now. Oh I almost forgot to include Schubeler DS-51 3PH fans.

Scott Black-Did you do much to program the Future ESC to run the Hacker motors?

Gordon
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Last edited by Plane Crazy; Dec 13, 2001 at 03:54 PM.
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 03:33 PM
Dude, where's My Plane?
JasonJ's Avatar
Green Lane PA USA
Joined Mar 2001
2,167 Posts
whooow, did you guys feel that? My ears just poped, the air presure just dropped in here, Gordon must have spooled up the YA F-18 with those new Hackers! Time to put that thing back in the air .
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