HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:37 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2004
129 Posts
...
howcar is offline Find More Posts by howcar
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:45 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2004
129 Posts
This is all getting way out of hand now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
It's the way it behaves in ALL the AirWare radios, Norman. Actually, what is happening is it's changing the opposite side vs. the one you have selected. It's slated to be fixed at some time in the future, but I wouldn't expect it in the next update.
Andy
By ALL AirWare radios, I assume this means the bug (or whatever you choose to call it) has been there for several years?

If so, the statement ‘It's slated to be fixed at some time in the future, but I wouldn't expect it in the next update’ is a terrible indictment of HH’s attitude.
Just how long do they need to fix it, OR ANY OF THE OTHERS?

The DX8 is still buggy two years on, with updates adding more, and no likelihood of them being resolved in the foreseeable future. The DX18 is going exactly the same way!
Don’t hold your breath for a bug free radio any time soon – it won’t happen.

I am still using V1.04 on my DX8 and will not risk introducing other problems by updating.
Updating is supposed to fix problems – not introduce them!

I would strongly recommend users not to update to a later version until they read on this forum, over the few months following the update, that users who did update are saying it is bug free. FAT CHANCE OF THAT HAPPENING THOUGH.

By now I imagine the fanboys are red faced and fuming that I have dared to criticise the Spektrum software.

Despite the fanboys saying an update is a beta (but only when the bugs start appearing), we all know that it is not a beta or it would be clearly stated as such, with a formal feedback method, and a note that you download at your own risk.

As a business, you would think that HH would have learned their lessons from the DX8 problems.

HH may be hot on service but their IT development department appears to be a bit of a shambles – what else could account for not fixing known bugs and not supplying patches, but instead, adding enhancements in updates that no one has asked for or make little difference to the user?
HH - SPEND THAT SAME TIME AND MONEY ON FIXING THE BUGS! THAT IS YOUR DUTY!

Unless HH sort ALL problems that occur, promptly, on the DX18, I believe many people will not give Spektrum a third chance, and move brands.
howcar is offline Find More Posts by howcar
Last edited by howcar; Aug 29, 2012 at 08:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:55 PM
Suspended Account
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
9,069 Posts
It's o.k. to point out issues, even Victory Pete served a good purpose most of the time! Now, my DX 8 is a fine radio, though this latest weird issue kind of has me scratching my head.
JohnathanSwift is offline Find More Posts by JohnathanSwift
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:59 PM
No bounce, No play.
davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
3,816 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar View Post
....I am still using V1.04 on my DX8 and will not risk introducing other problems by updating.
Updating is supposed to fix problems – not introduce them!

I would strongly recommend users not to update to a later version until they read on this forum, over the few months following the update, that users who did update are saying it is bug free....
That's the camp I am in for the most part. As I mentioned before, the only update I did was the one to remove the nag screen, and I will not do any more until it is proven good firmware.

As it stands now, the RF performance is stellar, so I don't want to mess around with it. I have no use for the trainer port anyway so I have no desire to fix whatever issues it has in the orginal firmware. If I do want to use my Phoenix Sim I will just continue to use my DX7 for that.

So far I am happy with the overall perofrmance of my first two Spektrum radios but if these types of issues continue and somebody else comes out with an 18 channel radio with 16 mixes in the same price range it will be very tempting to jump ship. As far as all the different manufacturers versions of FHSS I feel there is little difference in robustness of the link. That just leaves firmware and features to compete about. Spek only has two out of three right now (assuming equal price points), if they fall behind on another one it could be brand switch for me.
davidmc36 is online now Find More Posts by davidmc36
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:59 PM
Registered User
pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
14,521 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnathanSwift View Post
It's o.k. to point out issues, even Victory Pete served a good purpose most of the time! Now, my DX 8 is a fine radio, though this latest weird issue kind of has me scratching my head.
VP was a troll - was banned for it and deserved to be. He didn't serve any "good purpose" I could figure out. I think that was the general consensus.

Now back on topic.

I think I am ready for the DX18 ready to order soon. Hope I won't miss the touch screen of the A9!

Mike
pda4you is online now Find More Posts by pda4you
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:02 PM
Suspended Account
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
9,069 Posts
Well, reasonable people can disagree: I spanked him publicly and privately. He did alert me to a few issues that helped in my early use of my DX 8.

I told him to tone it down, and he did not...
JohnathanSwift is offline Find More Posts by JohnathanSwift
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:57 PM
Registered User
USA, LA, Sulphur
Joined Apr 2006
1,237 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pda4you View Post

I think I am ready for the DX18 ready to order soon. Hope I won't miss the touch screen of the A9!

Mike
I had a DX7 and sold it for an A9. I loved the A9 and the touch screen and its awesome programming but it was a little thick due to my not-so-long fingers and the pinch method I use. I sold it for the DX8 and loved it except for the stick ends. It fit my hands a little better. Then I sold the DX8 and bought the DX18. It fits even better. I like the programming but it is not quite as user friendly as the A9 is for programming. The DX18 is a very nice radio and I think you will like it alot.
dfrazier is offline Find More Posts by dfrazier
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:05 PM
Registered User
pda4you's Avatar
USA, TX, Trophy Club
Joined May 2002
14,521 Posts
Cool...
pda4you is online now Find More Posts by pda4you
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2012, 10:46 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
1,188 Posts
Software Development Lifecycle (SDLC) Comments

Disclaimer: I am not an employee of HH; only a customer.

I did spend my lengthy career in software development; mostly hard real-time mission critical systems where bugs could literally be considered life-or-death. Just a fact, not bragging, or anything, but even with the stakes so high, and exhaustive testing, the occasional bug slipped through.

Why? Testing is an inexact science. Every software developer knows that it is far less expensive (and less annoying to customers) to uncover, and fix, prior to release. However, it is only the users, sometimes doing unexpected things, or unexpected combinations of things, that can expose the subtle / esoteric bug. Once addressed in a software release, that user scenario then is included in the next test cycle to prevent a repeat.

The second point, about which areas are developed/released before others is also part of the SDLC process. There are usually multiple releases in the pipeline at different stages of development, testing, etc. Changing a release, in the middle of a cycle, can often introduce far more serious bugs and increase costs to the end user. Egregious problems, dead-in-the-water, no work-around possible, etc., obviously have to be addressed and I sense HH doing that.

Is the process perfect? Nope. Is the IT department at HH incompetent? I seriously doubt that given the guidance/answers/etc., displayed in this, and other, forums.

Frustrating? You betcha, but knowing how software is developed, and knowing how my six was bitten more than once, makes me less willing to blame and more willing to be patient.

Just my $0.02.

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar View Post
This is all getting way out of hand now.



By ALL AirWare radios, I assume this means the bug (or whatever you choose to call it) has been there for several years?

If so, the statement ‘It's slated to be fixed at some time in the future, but I wouldn't expect it in the next update’ is a terrible indictment of HH’s attitude.
Just how long do they need to fix it, OR ANY OF THE OTHERS?

The DX8 is still buggy two years on, with updates adding more, and no likelihood of them being resolved in the foreseeable future. The DX18 is going exactly the same way!
Don’t hold your breath for a bug free radio any time soon – it won’t happen.

I am still using V1.04 on my DX8 and will not risk introducing other problems by updating.
Updating is supposed to fix problems – not introduce them!

I would strongly recommend users not to update to a later version until they read on this forum, over the few months following the update, that users who did update are saying it is bug free. FAT CHANCE OF THAT HAPPENING THOUGH.

By now I imagine the fanboys are red faced and fuming that I have dared to criticise the Spektrum software.

Despite the fanboys saying an update is a beta (but only when the bugs start appearing), we all know that it is not a beta or it would be clearly stated as such, with a formal feedback method, and a note that you download at your own risk.

As a business, you would think that HH would have learned their lessons from the DX8 problems.

HH may be hot on service but their IT development department appears to be a bit of a shambles – what else could account for not fixing known bugs and not supplying patches, but instead, adding enhancements in updates that no one has asked for or make little difference to the user?
HH - SPEND THAT SAME TIME AND MONEY ON FIXING THE BUGS! THAT IS YOUR DUTY!

Unless HH sort ALL problems that occur, promptly, on the DX18, I believe many people will not give Spektrum a third chance, and move brands.
Snowflake6515 is offline Find More Posts by Snowflake6515
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 12:02 AM
Bona Fide Cub Nut
CurtissP40's Avatar
Northwest Oregon
Joined Jan 2006
611 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake6515 View Post
Disclaimer: I am not an employee of HH; only a customer.

<SNIP/>

Is the process perfect? Nope. Is the IT department at HH incompetent? I seriously doubt that given the guidance/answers/etc., displayed in this, and other, forums.

Frustrating? You betcha, but knowing how software is developed, and knowing how my six was bitten more than once, makes me less willing to blame and more willing to be patient.

Just my $0.02.

Michael
I’m in full agreement with Snowflake (Post #3039). I too, am not a HH employee - just an enthusiastic DX18 owner.

Be patient. Give HH time to do a good job.

Be happy that the DX18 can actually be updated with a simple download. From my admittedly limited viewpoint, many high end transmitters don’t allow this – or, if they do, the turnaround is longer and less frequent. Also – there is no evidence that there is someone like Andy who supports those systems.

We have it pretty good!!

As a retired software developer of 43 years (computer graphics, database, aerospace and web), I can speak to how it is nearly impossible to predict when a specific bug will be fixed or when a certain feature will be added. Keep in mind that software development involves defining the objective, writing the code, checking and debugging it, and then running it through an independent beta test sequence. It is folly for a developer to beta test his/her own code.

Also, a good beta test does not only check the new code, but the old code too – to confirm that the change hasn’t caused problems elsewhere. The bigger and more complex the program, the longer the beta test will take. You don’t want an inadequately-tested update.

That all takes time.

Finally, it is typical for a software development group (with a limited number of applicable resources - i.e. programmers) to prioritize fixes and upgrades according to the seriousness of the bug as well as customer demand. Don’t expect ANY software company to divulge its priorities. And don’t expect those priorities to match everybody’s personal priority set.

If you want a certain bug fixed or enhancement added, by all means, let HH and the rest of us know. Leave your negative remarks and harassment out of your posts. They don’t help anything.

Happy flying!!

Curt
CurtissP40 is offline Find More Posts by CurtissP40
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2004
129 Posts
It was good to see the responses to my post, by Snowflake6515 and CurtissP40, both not fanboys just hitting back, but giving good factual reports on their experiences.

Quote:
It is folly for a developer to beta test his/her own code.

Also, a good beta test does not only check the new code, but the old code too – to confirm that the change hasn’t caused problems elsewhere. The bigger and more complex the program, the longer the beta test will take. You don’t want an inadequately tested update.

WISE WORDS - HH TAKE NOTE.


I beg to differ on two points though:

I have worked for two of the biggest retail groups in the UK, and have
experienced the chaos caused by ‘bad software’.

1. In one case the IT team developed new software and trialled it in several stores. Sounds good, but they picked stores with Yes Men managers who reported they thought it was great – and did this at meetings and in the company newspapers.
But, shop floor staff were telling their colleagues in other stores the truth; that it was causing them and customers aggro, time and frustration.
They then released the software nationwide and within days the proverbial was hitting the fan big time. Only then did they start he REAL beta testing with users who told it as it was. Sound familiar?

The moral of that story is: Don’t give beta testing to fanboys as they cannot be trusted to be objective.


2. In both companies, any IT issue that affected ‘front of house’ operations, with an impact on the stores or customers, was always treated as an emergency
and I have personal experience, on several occasions, of seeing bugs resolved at warp speed when the problem is pointed out to a senior director!

Even complex problems were fixed within days, sometimes a few weeks, when the IT department were feeling the heat from the boardroom.
So it is possible in many cases to resolve issues quickly, it’s just the motivation, or lack of it, that often prevents it.


Quote:
If you want a certain bug fixed or enhancement added, by all means, let HH and the rest of us know.
Leave your negative remarks and harassment out of your posts. They don’t help anything.

I couldn’t agree more on the first sentence

I couldn’t disagree more on the second.

For ‘negative remarks’ I read constructive criticism of a problem.
For ‘harassment’ I read promoting your case to get action.

History shows that in most cases, pushing your point of view vigorously (without violence or abuse) is the most effective way to get any action.

Quote:
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

Probably over the top in the context of RCG forums, but you get my drift.
howcar is offline Find More Posts by howcar
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:08 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
25,304 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar View Post
History shows that in most cases, pushing your point of view vigorously (without violence or abuse) is the most effective way to get any action.
I suggest you read this post, and the one immediately after it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18707
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18708

Andy
AndyKunz is offline Find More Posts by AndyKunz
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:46 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2004
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar
History shows that in most cases, pushing your point of view vigorously (without violence or abuse) is the most effective way to get any action.

Quote: posted by Andy
I suggest you read this post, and the one immediately after it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18707
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18708
Andy


Yes, I was fully aware of those posts.

Quote:
…………..that the beep you hear when you center AUX3 was the request of ONE user - and Spektrum decided it was worthy of being implemented.
And he didn't have to badger anybody or start a poll or ANYTHING! Go figure!

Well I have gone and figured – and it appears to defy logic. That comment just reinforces my view that HH don’t really give too much credence to customer’s requests as being worthy, unless it suits them, and not the customer.

ONE customer comment and you produce a software enhancement (that is hardly a game changer), but MANY customer comments, on bugs that affect the correct operation of the radio, can produce no action! Go Figure!
howcar is offline Find More Posts by howcar
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:57 AM
Closed Account
Joined Mar 2011
176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by howcar
History shows that in most cases, pushing your point of view vigorously (without violence or abuse) is the most effective way to get any action.

Quote: posted by Andy
I suggest you read this post, and the one immediately after it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18707
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=18708
Andy


Yes, I was fully aware of those posts.

Quote:
…………..that the beep you hear when you center AUX3 was the request of ONE user - and Spektrum decided it was worthy of being implemented.
And he didn't have to badger anybody or start a poll or ANYTHING! Go figure!

Well I have gone and figured – and it appears to defy logic. That comment just reinforces my view that HH don’t really give too much credence to customer’s requests as being worthy, unless it suits them, and not the customer.

ONE customer comment and you produce a software enhancement (that is hardly a game changer),
but MANY customer comments, on bugs that affect the correct operation of the radio, can produce no action! Go Figure!
NO ACTION? how do you know this? Do you work for the company and this is why you no what is going on at HH/Spek?

I don't mind giving them time to work out the issue. I've been to the mechanics before where I needed to come back or leave the car to them for some time so they could find the problem and fix it then they always go for test drive to ensure it's working properly.

Unless you work for them and can say no action is being done, I much rather wait and see for myself.
RCing is offline Find More Posts by RCing
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:57 AM
Suspended Account
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
9,069 Posts
Listen, folks, I understand pride of authorship, and I am a consumer, too: so, let's laud them for their past efforts and encourage them to clean up what little remains-I love my DX 8, and wish She Who Must be Obeyed would relent on a DX 18.
JohnathanSwift is offline Find More Posts by JohnathanSwift
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Spektrum DSM2 and the Nats - Question for Spektrum/JR users aeajr Sailplane Talk 25 May 29, 2012 04:14 PM
Sold Spektrum DX6 6-channel System with Spektrum AR6000 Receiver $50 shooboy Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 6 Dec 20, 2011 06:12 PM
Sold Spektrum DX6 6-channel System with Spektrum AR6000 Receiver $50 shooboy Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 4 Dec 14, 2011 08:30 PM
For Sale Spektrum & JR 2.4 Ghz DSM2 receivers for sale I have a sailplane sized Spektrum AR93 zaptherio Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 1 Nov 15, 2011 06:14 PM
Sold SPEKTRUM DX6i DSMX with Spektrum Ni-cads and charger- like new condition shooboy Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 6 Oct 19, 2011 05:59 AM