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Old Jul 16, 2012, 06:20 AM
Certified Propellerhead
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined Mar 2001
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambalunga View Post
The AR600 is a single RX with antenna switch. Fades and frame loss should equal or the frame loss slightly higher with a single RX.
Interesting point. I never thought of that.
It would appear that I have been comparing apples to oranges then. Most of my experience with data loggers on my old DX8 is from flying with AR7610 and AR8000 receivers. These are placed in my larger and more expensive airplanes. Airplanes that I haven't tried on the DX18 yet, as it is too windy in Denmark at the moment.
On my new DX18, I have only used some AR600's and a single, new plane with an AR7610, which demonstrated extreme amount of fades, quite likely due to crammed up space inside it.

VP:
I did think of phase cancellation when I first heard of the dual transmitter antenna, but earlier in this thread it is mentioned that the transmitter alternate between the two antennas between each frame, so that can't be it.

I still would like to be able to measure maximum consecutive frame loss length. Is the data protocol out of the receiver bind/data plug available somewhere? I could probably make a small microcontroller record that information.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 07:50 AM
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Emile's Avatar
The Netherlands, LI, Venray
Joined Mar 2003
448 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger951 View Post
this is a photo of the screen after a 10 min flight,have i got a cause for concern or does all appear ok.
Yesterday i experienced same readings after only 6 minutes with my TDR Rigid. Most of the Fades occured when flying in front of me (in DSM2 mode with AR9000). When i performed a Range Check on 30 meters i knew that indeed something was not good. Next i performed a Range Check (30 mtr) with my Habu32 (motor off) and i had more than 100 Frame losses within seconds and a Hold (in DSMX mode with AR8000).

I went home and got my good old DX8 to verify that it's the DX18 that has a problem.
Result ... A=0, B=5, L=0, F=0, H=0 during a 6 minute flight. (SUPER)

Both transmitters where operating in the same mode (DSM2) and i used same flight distance and patterns.

So I wrote an email to Horizonhobby Germany and tomorrow they are picking up my DX18 for Check. Let's hope they find the rootcause, because i don't thrust it ... i never had such high values with my DX8.

Kind regards,
Emile
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Westranm's Avatar
United States, AZ, Chandler
Joined Jan 2011
431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile View Post
Yesterday i experienced same readings after only 6 minutes with my TDR Rigid. Most of the Fades occured when flying in front of me (in DSM2 mode with AR9000). When i performed a Range Check on 30 meters i knew that indeed something was not good. Next i performed a Range Check (30 mtr) with my Habu32 (motor off) and i had more than 100 Frame losses within seconds and a Hold (in DSMX mode with AR8000).

I went home and got my good old DX8 to verify that it's the DX18 that has a problem.
Result ... A=0, B=5, L=0, F=0, H=0 during a 6 minute flight. (SUPER)

Both transmitters where operating in the same mode (DSM2) and i used same flight distance and patterns.

So I wrote an email to Horizonhobby Germany and tomorrow they are picking up my DX18 for Check. Let's hope they find the rootcause, because i don't thrust it ... i never had such high values with my DX8.

Kind regards,
Emile
Did you look at your servo setup screen to see if your DX18 also has the screen glitch as shown in the videos in this forum? I have both poor link performance (abundance of holds as compared to DX6i on DSMX) and the glitch. I think it would be good for us to know if the glitch is an indicator of more serious issues with the radio.

-Randy
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:34 AM
Suspended Account
Rhode Island USA
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westranm View Post
Did you look at your servo setup screen to see if your DX18 also has the screen glitch as shown in the videos in this forum? I have both poor link performance (abundance of holds as compared to DX6i on DSMX) and the glitch. I think it would be good for us to know if the glitch is an indicator of more serious issues with the radio.

-Randy
Has there been an official statement from Spektrum about this?

VP
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:36 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
23,964 Posts
Randy,

As noted several times, the LCD is purely cosmetic and has no link to RF itself nor to the calculations of what goes on the RF. If you are having RF problems, get THAT issue resolved.

How were you getting flight log data with your DX6i? Using the STi or a Flight Log device?

Also, be sure you are using the correct terminology (this is just a general reminder for everybody). A Fade (A, B, R, or L) is when a single packet of data is missed on a single receiver. A Frame Loss (F) is when all antennas miss the same packet. A Hold (H) is when all antennas miss 42 packets in a row.

Fades are not a big deal, and you will have more of them when flying DSMX vs. DSM2.

If you have a simple rx like the AR600 which only has a single receiver, the Fade and Frame numbers will be close. Getting a Hold is a major event.

Andy
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:43 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
JohnathanSwift's Avatar
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory Pete View Post
Has there been an official statement from Spektrum about this?

VP
Yes, by inference: it is "cosmetic," only, not functional, and by compound inference, either "they" are working on it, or send it in for repairs.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:46 AM
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Canada, NS, Halifax
Joined Feb 2010
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On an $800 radio I'd like to think cosmetic screen issues would be handled as well. Is this an ongoing known issue that is being worked on? Limited to certain batches, etc?
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:49 AM
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The Netherlands, LI, Venray
Joined Mar 2003
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Hi Andy,

I attached the logging of my TDR Rigid flight.
(see attachment flight nr1).
This was with AR9000 in DSM2 mode.
The logging is not complete, the range check is missing.
Because i had the Logging connected to Throttle Hold mode.

Nice logging feature in combination with an Ipad.
Best way is to verify in REPLAY mode, because the GRAPH mode seems to have some BUG.

@Randy
Yes mine glitches also.

Kind regards,
Emile
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:52 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
JohnathanSwift's Avatar
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
On an $800 radio I'd like to think cosmetic screen issues would be handled as well. Is this an ongoing known issue that is being worked on? Limited to certain batches, etc?
I'm with you on this, and remain on the fence (viz purchase) until or unless it is cured.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Shadrack's Avatar
Winnipeg
Joined Feb 2002
5,851 Posts
No issue on my radio.
I am very pleased with it.
My only concern was the issues that Andy has covered above and put to rest my concerns.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:58 AM
Stop scaring my donkey!
JohnathanSwift's Avatar
Greenland
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrack View Post
No issue on my radio.
I am very pleased with it.
My only concern was the issues that Andy has covered above and put to rest my concerns.
Glad you don't have it-my luck is always to get one with a defect, so I'm waiting.

For me, it would be like a super model with a big ole hairy mole on her face: cosmetic, yes; deal killer, yes!
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Winnipeg
Joined Feb 2002
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Usually that is me.
Glad you sucked up my bad karma.
Mine would be a GT-R with a bent fin on the turbo.
Already got the hot wife....
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Gordon's Avatar
Joined Aug 2000
3,919 Posts
Hey guys, I just saw this on Flying Giants:

" Additionally, a fellow DX-18 user indicated that the new AR9020 RX (comes with the DX18) is actually a 10 channel RX and that the "Batt" receptacle is also Aux5. I checked it out and sure enough it works just fine. You do not need to use XPlus to gain access to the Aux5 channel -- just program it like any other of the nine channels on the AR9020 RX and use a Y harness to plug into the Batt receptacle."

I haven't tried this myself as I only read it a minute ago, but it sounds like great news for one of my existing planes.

Gordon
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
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United States, AZ, Chandler
Joined Jan 2011
431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
Randy,

As noted several times, the LCD is purely cosmetic and has no link to RF itself nor to the calculations of what goes on the RF. If you are having RF problems, get THAT issue resolved.

How were you getting flight log data with your DX6i? Using the STi or a Flight Log device?

Also, be sure you are using the correct terminology (this is just a general reminder for everybody). A Fade (A, B, R, or L) is when a single packet of data is missed on a single receiver. A Frame Loss (F) is when all antennas miss the same packet. A Hold (H) is when all antennas miss 42 packets in a row.

Fades are not a big deal, and you will have more of them when flying DSMX vs. DSM2.

If you have a simple rx like the AR600 which only has a single receiver, the Fade and Frame numbers will be close. Getting a Hold is a major event.

Andy
Andy,

I am only asking about a potential link because I seem to have both and haven't heard the root cause to either.

For my testing to compare the DX18 with my DX6i I was testing DSMX, so I didn't use my STi given that the DX6i only works with STi in DSM2 mode. I also wanted to ensure my telemetry module didn't interfere with reception in any way.

I tested the AR600 in two foam planes with same setup as from the factory. I then replaced the AR600 in one of the planes with a brand new AR6210 (with satellite) with the same results.

I had previously tested my DX18 using the telemetry module a few weeks back experiencing holds at 30 meters, but that was when I was in a bit of denial that my radio would have such an issue, so I didn't take it seriously. I also had other electronics crammed into the model, so I thought it wasnt a conclusive test.

All my testing has been focused on holds. When comparing the two transmitters, I was seeing holds that we're visible from the plane's control surfaces locking in place. I then looked that the receivers to count the number of holds per the blinking red light. I also put my planes in the air and found I was getting holds at full power, too, with DX18 but not my DX6i. I flew these same planes over 2000ft this weekend with my DX6i and did not have a single hold (checked receivers after each flight) after flying for over 3hrs. On the DX18 I had moments where I was afraid I would lose my plane.

I sent my radio in late last week with a litany of info regarding my testing, so I'm hoping we can get to the bottom of both of these issues soon.

-Randy
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 03:40 PM
Registered User
Vienna, Austria
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
Hey guys, I just saw this on Flying Giants:

" Additionally, a fellow DX-18 user indicated that the new AR9020 RX (comes with the DX18) is actually a 10 channel RX and that the "Batt" receptacle is also Aux5. I checked it out and sure enough it works just fine. You do not need to use XPlus to gain access to the Aux5 channel -- just program it like any other of the nine channels on the AR9020 RX and use a Y harness to plug into the Batt receptacle."

I haven't tried this myself as I only read it a minute ago, but it sounds like great news for one of my existing planes.

Gordon
Yep. Works. The 9020 seems to be a 10020. On the PCB there is written AR10k
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