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Old Jul 14, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Canada, NS, Halifax
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Originally Posted by richard hanson View Post
Thank goodness none of this "packaging of features" occurs in other products!!
(let me count the ways ----)
Yes I'm aware, doesn't mean everyone has to do it to the nth degree however.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 12:27 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
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Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
Yes I'm aware, doesn't mean everyone has to do it to the nth degree however.
I think N is a pretty small number in our instance! DX4e/DX5e, DX6i, DX7s/8, DX10t/DX18. That's only 4 tiers!

Let me approach that from a slightly different angle.

LOTS of guys start out with a "toy" transmitter like those that come in the little RTF helis, which look and feel a lot like game controllers. They move up a notch to the DX4e/DX5e format, then to the DX6i. The DX6i has the right feature set of a huge portion of the market. The level of complexity of the hardware, code and the models is a particular level, say X. The DX6i has an 8-bit micro in it with a small ROM and simple user interface. There's nothing wrong with that - it works fine, meets, their needs, and has a cost that fits their wallet.

There is another part of the market that needs more features. The DX8 has a 32-bit micro in it with several times the memory of the DX6i and runs several times faster. That means it has the capability to provide more features. Those extra features cost money both to develop and to maintain. The bigger/faster CPU costs a lot more, too (several times more).

The DX10t and DX18 have more memory still, and run twice as fast as the DX8, and those things don't come free. That speed is used to make more things happen and provide a little lower latency - features that high-end users need. The guy flying with a DX6i or DX8 isn't going to use those extra features (either because his plane doesn't need them or he doesn't have the experience to use them well), nor will the lower latency make any difference. Why should he pay for a faster CPU, longer and more expensive test regime, and have confusion added to his basic "just want to fly" routine?!?!? If he eventually wants to build more complex models, then he can upgrade his radio at that time.

There is some tiering of features, but it's not to sell more radios. It's to help our customers. Those who don't need a complex system should not be forced to learn nor pay for a complex system. The same thing is done in other industries, too. Before I came to Horizon, I worked for several different industrial-type companies (hotel and hospital pay TV systems, a power supply manufacturer, and in defense) and in every one of them we did the same thing - tiered the feature set to fit the level of complexity and performance that the customers needed.

Doing so reduced cost (for both manufacturing and learning to use), improved maintainability, and boosted customer satisfaction.

If there were a way to reduce cost and improve capability, you can be sure Spektrum will be the one leading the way. Which other radio company has an 18-channel fully proportional radio available that is similar-enough to their 6-channel entry-level computer radio with as simple a migration path?

As you well understand, some features will creep downwards from the higher-end. Believe it or not, it IS impossible to move some down, even thought "it's just software." Lower-cost CPUs do not have all the capabilities to do everything within the hard time or memory constraints. Just yesterday we were trying to find a way to work a feature into the DX8 that it simply does not have the resources to do. That feature won't be migrating downwards, but others I'm sure will.

Andy

PS - I only have a few models that have more than 6 channels, and I've been flying RC since the 1970's. That's why most of my models still have AR6200's in them - yes, DSM2 AR6200's. I would probably be flying a DX8 today even if I didn't work here.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post

There is some tiering of features, but it's not to sell more radios. It's to help our customers. Those who don't need a complex system should not be forced to learn nor pay for a complex system.
I, for one, believe this 100%.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 02:36 PM
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There is some tiering of features, but it's not to sell more radios. It's to help our customers. Those who don't need a complex system should not be forced to learn nor pay for a complex system.....
I agree with Andy on this, as well.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with tiering features and having a range of products with various features, depending on what you need and how much you want to spend. Spektrum does it no more than any other tech manufacturer.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by richard hanson View Post
Looky thar -over the fence-- the grass appears much greener !!!
Well I do prefer "Bluegrass" over "Bentgrass".

VP

PS: Text size does matter!
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Well I do prefer "Bluegrass" over "Bentgrass".

VP

PS: Text size does matter!
Hope you don't get colic--
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 05:32 PM
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Andy;
Sincerely, I was happy that the DX18 finally had an abundance of mixes but in most cases I don't need the additional channels, I need the mixes. But I can't get features on lower channel radios though in concept this should only be software. Does the increase of mixing greatly slow processing? My 9505 has way less features but still does the 11ms; which by the way cost as much as the DX18 does now, a by product of market tiering?

If the addition of features and mixes slows the latency, why not allow for some of the lower channel radio's to have the features and let us live with a slightly lower processing speed if thats the penalty? It would make for a better starter radio.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 05:49 PM
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Your "I don't need the channels" is very normal. Most guys buying high-end radios need the features, not the channels (some DO need the channels). Most "starter" radios don't need the mixes because they're for simpler aircraft, and they don't need more than 5 or 6 channels.

This is not the 11ms latency, this is the latency before it gets to the RF deck that I was talking about: It's the "channel processing time" which is different than the frame rate.

Mixes take two things - time (to calculate) and memory. To get more memory you need a bigger CPU. Bigger CPUs are faster. Thus, with a faster CPU you get both more mixes and more speed. Memory in these types of processors is very limited. You can't just add more memory like in a PC, the memory is INSIDE the processor chip. If you need more memory, you have to go to a bigger (more expensive) chip, but you often get a faster processor at the same time doing that.

When we did the DX8, we put in it a large-enough number of mixes for most applications that 8-channel planes would need. It also happened to be pretty close to the limit of what would fit, and we felt that we would like to have the memory available for other new features if we needed it (and some of it has been used, so 8 is now the limit anyway).

Andy
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 02:31 AM
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Good discussion, thanks for the replies, I appreciate. Still my humble wish, please add some curve points (to some model) as there is a target group for those as well
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Victory Pete View Post
Thanks for your "Concern", I am awaiting the arrival of the JR XG11. I have admired JR radios at my field for some time now.

VP
I might have been interested myself but the XG11 is a totally new system, DMSS which wouldn't be compatible with all my BNF stuff. Also I dislike the way the XG11 looks. It's like a cross between a transformer and Darth Vaders mask.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 12:25 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Manchester
Joined Jun 2012
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dx18 telemetry

had the dx18 over a week now and loving it, just started to play with the telemetry side of the tx, i have set it to record the data to memory card which is does.
but how do i open the file on a pc when i insert the memory card in, i can see the file name SPEKTRUM.TLM but pc wont open the file.

what program will open the file so i can log the data for specific models and then if i relocate rec/sats i can compare fades,frames etc

i know there is an iphone app but i really wanted it on the pc.

thanks inadvance

steven
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Not 100% but I think the only current way is the app.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 12:42 PM
No bounce, No play.
davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digger951 View Post
had the dx18 over a week now and loving it, just started to play with the telemetry side of the tx, i have set it to record the data to memory card which is does.
but how do i open the file on a pc when i insert the memory card in, i can see the file name SPEKTRUM.TLM but pc wont open the file.

what program will open the file so i can log the data for specific models and then if i relocate rec/sats i can compare fades,frames etc

i know there is an iphone app but i really wanted it on the pc.

thanks inadvance

steven
Can you zip it and upload it so we can have a look?
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmc36 View Post
Can you zip it and upload it so we can have a look?
did that work
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 01:11 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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The next version of the STi app will allow you to open the files. The radio is a bit ahead of the other support software.

Andy
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