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Old Jun 21, 2012, 08:32 PM
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davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
I haven't been able to find a glider with two elevator servos. Do you have one in mind?
Well, no. But if I need to use SAIL to get the Custom F-Modes then would it not help streamline the programming for what I am trying to do? ie: less reassignment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
There are items in the database which will probably never happen, and others which have been completed and are in testing, and others that are ranked high for a "soon" (maybe or not next) update.
Andy
So with that in mind there is no garantee that any particular change will happen, and maybe none of them will. And even if any do there is no expectation of information on when they may or may not happen. I guess I have three choices: Use ACRO and 4 flap notches, Try and sort out SAIL, or get out the soldering iron.


I may be able to get SAIL working. So far I got the throttle working by leaving the default assignments and in the Input Config I put Rknb to Inhibit. Then I made a mix of MOT-AUX3 (will have to move the left throttle servo to AUX3, and right throttle to whichever MOT is, I forget just now). Then I made a mix of RUD-MOT and one of RUD-AUX3 to get the differential thrust.

Two more mixes, Llv to MOT and AUX3 should take care of the Flight Idle.

After that it will just be moving the rest of the servos around to match the Config and Assignment settings.

Trying to make my mixes and then do the reassignments did not work out. I ended up with mixes moving places and the one that had been assigned to MOT became inhibited. Just does not seem to work with two channels assigned MOT.

Oh, and one more mix of ELV to something, whichever is free, then just hope whatever the slave is will follow the offset commands in Camber System, and follow the speed selections, and...........>>>>>>>>> i'm getting a headache............gotta stop for today.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 09:04 PM
No bounce, No play.
davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
Neither of which is true. You're still missing something about how the radio works.

There are "control functions" and "receiver ports" which share a common name (THRO, AUX1, etc.).

The first screen "Rx Port..." allows you to map an "airplane control function" to a receiver port. Airplane control functions are things like "Left Aileron" or "Throttle".

The second screen allows you to map physical input devices to auxiliary "control functions."

Unfortunately, there appears to be a little confusion because of the names being identical. Stick with me, it will be clear in a second.

On the first screen, you can put ANY "airplane control function" on any receiver port (exception is swash channels in heli mode). You can give yourself 10 Aux5's if you want.

On the second screen, those names which have their ownership used by the channel processor (CP) to create "airplane control functions" are marked as N/A. That means if you have a 2-aileron wing, you can't change the input to the Aux1 airplane control function slot - it's already owned by the CP to provide a destination for the Left Aileron function.

You CAN change the Aux5 "control function" to accept any physical device as its input. Do it, pick anything you want. Even the ROLLER clicker is available there!

Go back to the previous screen, and here you can tell the radio to put the Aux5 "control function" onto the AUX1 receiver port. Now the roller acts like a momentary switch, controlling a servo.

Andy
It just may make sense now. So I can, in the first screen, put Throttle:MOT etc. whatever I want to match where my servos are plugged in. Just don't repeat anything twice. Like don't set AUX3:MOT, leave the Aux channels named as they are. Then in the second screen assign what device on the radio is going to make the aux channels move.

So far so good. Now if I want to tame down the travel of the elevator and use dual rate for that, AUX4 does not respond to the reduced travel. So use Travel adjustment in the Servo Setup. But I ran into an issue with that when trying to do the aileron droop. Because I had reduced the overall travel, there was not much response to the Aileron section of the Camber Preset Screen.

OH CRAP! I said I was going to stop this for tonight.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 09:36 PM
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United States, KS, Rose Hill
Joined Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by stvinvegas View Post
Don't judge untill you have had to dig it out of several planes, get a pad and paper out, and have it not let you choose aux 3. You get a little more than pissed.
And what makes you think I haven't already done that?

L.
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:10 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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David,

Maybe it would be more clear if you drew me a picture (or at least an itemized list) of what you're really trying to accomplish (some "why" would help too). That would let me advise you better. I'm going to make some guesses based on what you've written (I left the radio at work).

It sounds like you're trying to make a twin-engine plane. B-25? Are you trying to make differential or separate trims? If so, quit - you can't if you want to keep the throttle curve and throttle cut functions operational for both channels too. You either need to have two channels with track together (except for features on the Servo menu), or you need to use mixes to create the behavior you want for trims and differentials.

If you want AUX4 rx port to be a nosewheel steering channel with a separate trim, you can. Instead of making a copy of the Rudder with mapping, use a mix of RUD > AUX4 with appropriate values to reduce travel and with the Trim inhibited. Then use your desired trim device > AUX4 (at 30% mix) to provide the trim for it. Be sure you turn off Trim Include on the RUD > AUX4 mix, or the rudder trim will adjust the steering too!

What are the many flight modes and flap positions for?

Hope this helps.

Andy
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Canada, BC, Coquitlam
Joined Dec 2009
442 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
You are most welcome.



Yeah, that's kinda like what Captain Edward Smith thought too. I think you're just starting to scratch the surface...



Most planes would have one leg start up, then the second start while the first is still rising. I'll do that because it's actually the more difficult one to program. I'll also assume you have electric retracts.

I'm doing this right now. Starting with sequencer 1 (the one default), change the switch to A (or H if you're in Mode 1). Change both times to 5. Change Name A to "Left" and "LLL" and Name B to "Right" and RRR.

Put A into position 0.

Set Chan A to GEAR and B to AUX1, and both to Propo mode. Click NEXT.

Select Point 3. Change LLL to -100%. Select Point 4. Change LLL to -100%.

Flip switch A to position 1. See how the graph changed? The start and end points are always equal. There's a cursor between the graphs showing the direction of the switch as it travels.

Select point 1 and change LLL and RRR to 100%. Select point 2 and change both LLL and RRR to 100%. Select point 3 and set LLL to -100$ and RRR to +100%.

Now when you flip the switch, you see that one leg starts up first, then the other leg starts up a little later. Normally with electric retracts you want to use Step mode. I find it easier to visualize in Propo mode, then change to Step when I got the basic picture I want.

OK, that does your mains. Now do the tail wheel. Use the second sequencer. Set it to switch A also, change the time to 10 and put it on AUX2. Go to the monitor screen and watch it work.

Now here's the cool part. Power cycle the radio and go back to sequencer 2. Change the switch to "Left" and left the rest alone. Now the tailwheel is driven by the time position of the left gear leg. Still on that screen, flip the switch and watch how the little dot moves across based on the time of the legs. It changes value as it crosses through each of the points selected on the second screen of S1A.

Now here's the slick part. Change the switch to "Right" instead. Now the switch only shows 3 options, but instead of being driven by the time of the sequencer, they're driven by the position of the servo on the right gear leg!

Here's the scoop: The "A" channel of a sequencer, used as a switch, reports a value 0-4 based on the position of the cursor as it moves across the display. It's TIME based.

When the "B" channel is used, it reports a value 0-2 based on the position of the servo, which is indirectly a function of the time.

This means you can have one sequencer drive another sequencer, and that things can happen based on servo positions rather than "time" per se. Lots of power in that little module, and I don't expect anybody to grasp it all right away. I'm still learning what all it can be used for, and I designed it! It's slick as snot, imho.

I know they're working on a video or two to help folks learn more about the sequencer. It's one of those things that a manual can only scratch the surface of, you gotta play with it and see others play with it to be able to get a better grasp.

(Which is funny to me, because it's really simple code-wise).

Andy
Wow Andy! Thanks a million for the super quick reply! I should have had mentioned that the retracts on both my p-47 and p-51 have inner gear doors that need to be programmed in as well. Also I'm pretty sure I can use the x-plus channels to do this right? If so then does it matte which ones I choose?
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 11:50 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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The two samples that come with the radio are for a P-47 and P-51 (I forget which is which offhand). If you're going to drive the doors then yes, X+ channels are great for all 6 servos if you want (assuming tail has doors too). It doesn't matter which ones you use, and you can do it all with 3 sequencers driven off the same switch.

I suggest you make the mains run off identical sequences, but that you tweak the timing for points 0 and 4 to get the different open/close timing. Remember that the inner doors should all close together even if the gear come up at the same time.

You can drive the tail off a similar sequence, just delaying the start time as appropriate. One thing that makes this easier is if you use the same timeframe for all 3 sequences, and just move the position of the points around to get things to happen at the right time.

Andy
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Old Jun 21, 2012, 11:54 PM
Registered User
Canada, BC, Coquitlam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
The two samples that come with the radio are for a P-47 and P-51 (I forget which is which offhand). If you're going to drive the doors then yes, X+ channels are great for all 6 servos if you want (assuming tail has doors too). It doesn't matter which ones you use, and you can do it all with 3 sequencers driven off the same switch.

I suggest you make the mains run off identical sequences, but that you tweak the timing for points 0 and 4 to get the different open/close timing. Remember that the inner doors should all close together even if the gear come up at the same time.

You can drive the tail off a similar sequence, just delaying the start time as appropriate. One thing that makes this easier is if you use the same timeframe for all 3 sequences, and just move the position of the points around to get things to happen at the right time.

Andy
Thanks again Andy! You've given me enough info for me to figure it out the rest of the way.

Cheers
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:03 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
24,204 Posts
More fun with sequencers:

If you're using a rudder mix to make the tailwheel, you can enable the mix based upon the state of the sequencer as a switch. If you make the mix active only when the A channel is in pos 0 or 4 (whichever is the fully-down state), then your tailwheel will stop moving as soon as the retract up movement starts and start only when it's fully down.

Andy
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Canada, BC, Coquitlam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
More fun with sequencers:

If you're using a rudder mix to make the tailwheel, you can enable the mix based upon the state of the sequencer as a switch. If you make the mix active only when the A channel is in pos 0 or 4 (whichever is the fully-down state), then your tailwheel will stop moving as soon as the retract up movement starts and start only when it's fully down.

Andy
Very cool! Will play with it more tomorrow :-)
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 03:39 AM
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davidmc36's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
David,

Maybe it would be more clear if you drew me a picture (or at least an itemized list) of what you're really trying to accomplish (some "why" would help too). That would let me advise you better. I'm going to make some guesses based on what you've written (I left the radio at work).

It sounds like you're trying to make a twin-engine plane. B-25? Are you trying to make differential or separate trims? If so, quit - you can't if you want to keep the throttle curve and throttle cut functions operational for both channels too. You either need to have two channels with track together (except for features on the Servo menu), or you need to use mixes to create the behavior you want for trims and differentials.

If you want AUX4 rx port to be a nosewheel steering channel with a separate trim, you can. Instead of making a copy of the Rudder with mapping, use a mix of RUD > AUX4 with appropriate values to reduce travel and with the Trim inhibited. Then use your desired trim device > AUX4 (at 30% mix) to provide the trim for it. Be sure you turn off Trim Include on the RUD > AUX4 mix, or the rudder trim will adjust the steering too!

What are the many flight modes and flap positions for?

Hope this helps.

Andy
Twin Otter

Wanted:

Five flap positiions: UP, 10, 20, 30, 40 degrees (because it is scale)

Differential Thrust mixed to Rudder

Aileron Droop

RUD-AIL mix for crosswind

Nose wheel is just "Y" connected to RUD, I achieved all the taming down of steering mechanically.

Dual Elevator servos that have to be opposite travel directions (not my choice, just the way the aircraft was constructed/configured)

Flaps, Droop, and Elevator offset to move at slow speed (each reaching their target at the same time)

Sequential use of Flight mode switches so all my actions are of the same format that I have been using since my first computer radio 15 years ago. Up/Away From Me for "flying" and Down/Towards Me for "landing" is the convention I have always used. What you referred to as "Panic Mode", I want to be all the same direction of stick movement, not have one towards me and another away from me on the primary switch.

This is the way I want the F-Mode switches to work:

B in 0/C in 0--FMode1
B in 1/C in 0--FMode2
B in 2/C in 0--FMode3
B in 2/C in 1--FMode4
B in 2/C in 2--FMode5

I expect that all my desires for Dual Elevators and Differential thrust would be easy to do in Acro but the lack of assignability of the primary F-Mode switch in Acro is what drove me to try it in Sail.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 04:27 AM
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New Zealand, Southland, Gore
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Andy, I bought a mode 1 version and my friend bought a mode 2 thinking it would be easy to change ( apparently there was only 1 mode 1 bought into he country but 60-70% of us are mode 1 here) he took the back off the transmitter and it doesn't seem very easy to change, is there any instruction on how to do it?

Cheers
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 08:45 AM
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Canada, BC, Coquitlam
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Andy,

So if I understand correctly I should have the first sequence to deal with the doors (only mains have doors), then sequence the mains of the gear door position and lastly have the tail retract off the position of one of the mains? Does that sound right?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 08:54 AM
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San Jose, CA USA
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Originally Posted by stvinvegas View Post
+

I think is the greatest radio ever produced to date. It blows any JR, Futaba, or previous Spektrum away.
No, Multiplex Profi 4000 was more capable. Depending on how you count, it had well over 100 mixers. Pretty easy to program, but VERY different from anything else so it took some effort to figure out, but once you did, it was easy. OTOH, its been out of production for a long time, and mine is old enough that I dont feel comfortable flying expensive models with it. (I also dont like kludging in 2.4 conversions)

BUT the DX 18 is the first radio I have looked at that was capable enough on the basic mixing etc to do the stuff I really need. The more I use it, the more I like it, and I am very optimistic that it will keep getting better with software upgrades.

Bob
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 09:37 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmc36 View Post
Twin Otter

Wanted:

Five flap positiions: UP, 10, 20, 30, 40 degrees (because it is scale)

Differential Thrust mixed to Rudder
You need to either give up diff thrust and then use two copies of the MOT channel (giving you access to thr cut and thr curve), or keep diff and use mixes of thr > aux and rud > mot and rud > aux.

Quote:
Aileron Droop
Mix Flap > LAL if Acro (activate Flap System first), or use Camber Preset if Sail.

Quote:
RUD-AIL mix for crosswind
Either use canned or P-Mix for this. I very much prefer doing the cross-controlling with my thumbs.

Quote:
Dual Elevator servos that have to be opposite travel directions (not my choice, just the way the aircraft was constructed/configured)

Flaps, Droop, and Elevator offset to move at slow speed (each reaching their target at the same time)
Use Acro.

Quote:
Sequential use of Flight mode switches so all my actions are of the same format that I have been using since my first computer radio 15 years ago. Up/Away From Me for "flying" and Down/Towards Me for "landing" is the convention I have always used. What you referred to as "Panic Mode", I want to be all the same direction of stick movement, not have one towards me and another away from me on the primary switch.

This is the way I want the F-Mode switches to work:

B in 0/C in 0--FMode1
B in 1/C in 0--FMode2
B in 2/C in 0--FMode3
B in 2/C in 1--FMode4
B in 2/C in 2--FMode5
Your choices are:

a) train your fingers to do things the standard way,
b) use 3 flap settings (the Air Team says you'll never know the difference on that plane).

Quote:
I expect that all my desires for Dual Elevators and Differential thrust would be easy to do in Acro but the lack of assignability of the primary F-Mode switch in Acro is what drove me to try it in Sail.
Yup, you'll need to pick which is more important, having a non-standard way to doing fm's and giving up other features, or having all the features but changing the way fm's work, or wait for an update that supports both.

The Air guys I talked to suggested that differential thrust is not going to help you any on that plane. They think you're making yourself a lot of work for virtually no gain.

Andy
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Last edited by AndyKunz; Jun 22, 2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 09:39 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerNZ View Post
Andy, I bought a mode 1 version and my friend bought a mode 2 thinking it would be easy to change ( apparently there was only 1 mode 1 bought into he country but 60-70% of us are mode 1 here) he took the back off the transmitter and it doesn't seem very easy to change, is there any instruction on how to do it?

Cheers
Nope, they're totally different gimbals than the DX8. Buy the mode you want! You would literally have to disassemble the entire radio to swap the gimbals. Let OMP do it for you.

Andy
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