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Old Feb 05, 2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by southernmd_man View Post
^ I've flown the UMX Beast 3D, and much prefer my UMX Beast. The Beast 3D felt numb for lack of a better word. Gyro's do have their place, helis for one, I fly both areo and heli.
I've actually heard several people make the same comment about the Beast UmX with the A3X system.

On another note...
I really have no problem with putting the A3X system on an airplane. The reality is that a lot of people go into this hobby that don't have any aptitude for flying. They end up crashing too many times, give up and get out. Maybe the A3X is just what they need to get there skills formed so they are able to move away from the crutch. Look at it like training wheels. Probably some of the hottest selling airplanes are the e-flight micros. RTF and low price point. So more than likely a new flyer is going to buy one. With the A3X they have a better chance of success.
Pureists of course are going to scream about it. I could only imagine how many people screamed about using a gyro on a helicopter and yet now no one flys a heli without one.
in the end it all equals fun.
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dhc8guru View Post


I really have no problem with putting the A3X system on an airplane. The reality is that a lot of people go into this hobby that don't have any aptitude for flying. They end up crashing too many times, give up and get out. Maybe the A3X is just what they need to get there skills formed so they are able to move away from the crutch. Look at it like training wheels..
No no no, as said many times, AS3x will NOT help a pilot who can't fly well, it will just improve the experience for those who can and widen the flight cognition envelope. if the plane is is banked left and the pilot doesn't have he quick thinking/experience to counter that before it drills into the ground, AS3x will not correct that for them.

Not flaming or being a numpty, just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Echoing the comments of Bowerz....

AS3X is not an auto-pilot. It's not an auto-recovery system. It's not a wing-leveler. It's not 'nanny-ware'. It does not 'fix' anything the pilot does wrong, as it has no idea what 'wrong' is. It is a 3-axis damping system that has been tuned to make UM planes fly more like their large-scale counterparts. A pilot who has only flown R/E/T ships will not be able to fly these 4+ channel planes any better than they'd be able to fly them without the system (aside from the aerodynamically unstable ships, of course - but then expert pilots would also be unable to fly them without AS3X). The system will not magically endow pilots with the ability to perform maneuvers they didn't already know how to perform. Rather, it attempts to maintain the flight attitude last commanded by the pilot.

Again - the fixed-wing version of AS3X is not a crutch, nor is it 'training wheels'! It is not something for beginners to 'later move away from'! Note the recommended skill levels for these AS3X-equipped planes. None of them are marketed to beginners. Not even the Carbon Cub.

Many of us seasoned/advanced pilots who have decades of experience with challenging-to-fly, often unforgiving planes - such as scale warbirds, pylon racers, scale g/a planes, and/or hot-rods such as unlimited aerobatic ships are chomping at the bit for this technology! Our primary interest in the system is its ability to expand the operational envelope of UM airframes & make backyard planes fly more like our larger-scale ships. Being able to fly planes in the backyard that behave more like the large-scale ships we fly at the field - and being able to enjoy their scale-like flying qualities in a light to moderate breeze, rather than having to wait for ideal conditions, is a game-changer. This has absolutely nothing to do with crutches or training wheels! It, however does have everything to do with simple logic:

The goal of many in this hobby is to fly as much as possible. For many of us who enjoy flying scale, the goal is to fly planes that behave as realistically as is practical. Until now, that meant packing up my large-scale ships & heading to the club field. After all - the primary reason that large/giant-scale exists is because 1/4-scale & larger models tend to exhibit most (if not all) of their full-scale counterparts' handling characteristics. If I can fly a scale ship in the backyard that behaves like a scale plane is supposed to behave - and if I can enjoy the scale-like handling without having to wait for ideal conditions - I will have added a month or two of enjoyable scale flying to my outdoor flying season. And that is a very big deal.

Joel
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Joel,

Couldn't agree more.

Also can't wait for my ASK-21 or Cub so I ordered the Gee Bee R2 and am testing out the one day shipping. Silly since I don't know when I'll get a chance to fly it, but the technology interests me enough to want to examine it close up.

I mentioned in another thread that if HH offers something like this with FPV and telemetry reporting to a tx with a full cockpit daylight video screen I'm ready to buy it.

Pete
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Old Feb 06, 2012, 10:48 PM
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It would be nice to be able to at least turn the gyros off. Its annoying to have to deal with them while trimming and initial GC adjustments.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteSchug View Post
Joel,

Couldn't agree more.

Also can't wait for my ASK-21 or Cub so I ordered the Gee Bee R2 and am testing out the one day shipping. Silly since I don't know when I'll get a chance to fly it, but the technology interests me enough to want to examine it close up.

I mentioned in another thread that if HH offers something like this with FPV and telemetry reporting to a tx with a full cockpit daylight video screen I'm ready to buy it.

Pete
Pete,

Thanks! If HH offered something like this - optioned as you described, I'd be right there beside you with checkbook & pen in-hand! Heck, I'd probably order two, just so I'd have a spare!

I'll be interested in your impression of the Gee Bee. Good luck with the maiden! Mine should be at the store tomorrow or Wed. Wind's supposed to be in the 10-15 MPH range over the next few days. Before AS3X, maidening a UM in a 10+ MPH wind was no fun at all. AS3X changes that. I maidened the original Beast in a 10-17 MPH wind. Within 3-4 minutes, I was ready to land. With the Beast 3D, I waited for some serious wind to really check it out. I was actually having fun flying it in gusty 19 MPH winds! I went through 6 packs in a row! Hope I get home from the office early enough sometime this week to sneak the Gee Bee maiden in before it gets dark.

Joel
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Eclipse_7 View Post
It would be nice to be able to at least turn the gyros off. Its annoying to have to deal with them while trimming and initial GC adjustments.
I've been flying the AS3X-equipped Beast 3D since it came out in November.

The system is bypassed until you advance the throttle, so setting mechanical trims is no different than it is on other planes. In-flight trimming is no different, either. They do recommend that you get the mechanical trims as close as possible & use a minimum amount of tx trim - same as with flybarless helis. But then, minimizing tx trim has always been considered good modeling practice for all RC vehicles. Just fly, observe, trim as required, then land & adjust the mechanical trims so that little or no tx trim is required. AS3X will dampen certain signs of nose & tail-heaviness (notably pitch-sensitivity), however, one can still 'feel' a nose or tail-heavy AS3X-equipped plane.

Joel
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 03:05 AM
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I'm just saying that it would be nice to have an option to turn it off. I've been having more fun with my non AS3X cub than my Beast 3D. Then again I don't choose to fly in 15mph winds

How difficult could it be to make the "dampening" a programmable option for on and off? Turn it off for calm days, and turn it on when you fly in a tropical depression.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Eclipse_7 View Post
I'm just saying that it would be nice to have an option to turn it off. I've been having more fun with my non AS3X cub than my Beast 3D. Then again I don't choose to fly in 15mph winds

How difficult could it be to make the "dampening" a programmable option for on and off? Turn it off for calm days, and turn it on when you fly in a tropical depression.
You specifically mentioned trimming, which is a non-issue with AS3X. Wanting to turn if off for other reasons is a different story.

If I waited for calm conditions to fly my micros, my outdoor micro-flying season would be cut in half. With AS3X, it's actually fun to do stationary aerobatics with the B3D in 15-20 MPH winds - the plane seemingly hanging there in mid-air, right beside me. But there is more to AS3X than wind-handling. The ability to make a small plane fly more like its large-scale counterpart is every bit as big of a deal.

Regarding a switch - the engineering group already answered that. The prototype had a switch. They tried shutting it off. The Gee Bee was a real handful even for a pro. The Mig 15 would also be all but unflyable without stability-augmentation. With the Beast 3D's slightly aft recommended CG, it would be a handful for lower-time & many intermediate pilots without the system. Can you imagine the number of CS calls they'd get if they allowed us to disable the system on some of these planes? Even if the CC would still be relatively easy to fly without the system (which is likely true), they would have needed to develop yet another version of the system for the CC, rather than using the B3D brick, with CC-specific programming.

I'm sure these things were taken into account when they decided to delete the switch on the production versions.

Joel
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Southernmd_man,

I learned to fly in crosswinds & gusty conditions during my first year of flying RC, 28 years ago. I am not missing out on any learning experience. I simply want a full-featured, scale UM Super Cub with floats & flaps that flies more like my 1/4-scale Super Cub than a micro. Since it happens to have a tow-hook, I'll have to pick up the scale ASK-21 UM sailplane so I'll have something to tow.

Remember - AS3X is a 3-axis damping system. It doesn't fly the plane. If you don't know how to do a maneuver, you still won't be able to do it with AS3X. You still have to learn crosswind landing techniques, such as the crosswind-crab, forward slip, and side-slip. AS3X just makes it feel more like a 60-size plane than a 2 oz micro.

Horizon is using AS3X to make these scale UM ships behave more like their large-scale counterparts - not to "dumb down the pilot", as you so delicately put it.

Why do many large-scale pilots stay away from micros? Because the micros are usually twitchy, hard to fly, and they don't behave anything like "real planes". Now, even the giant-scale guys will be able to handle a UM plane in moderate winds. Plus, the planes can be tuned to have many of the handling characteristics of their larger-scale counterparts. Traditionally, we seasoned UM pilots & CP heli pilots have been the only ones who've had the quick reflexes required to fly 1-2 oz planes in 10-20 MPH winds. By making it a bit easier for the large/giant-scale crowd, hopefully we will see an influx of newcomers to the UM side of the hobby who want detailed, full-featured UM ships - as many of those who came from the large-scale side of the hobby do (myself included).

In a way - I guess you're right. The giant-scale crowd will be able to simply pick one of these up & fly it in the wind - without having to learn the hard stuff that the rest of us who have been flying UM planes for years had to learn. I think it will be a good thing in the long run, though. Hopefully, it will spur the development of many detailed, full-featured, true-scale micros with flaps, retracts, swing-wings, multiple engines, thrust-vectoring, etc. - that fly more like their large-scale counterparts. We all win in the end!

Since the beginning of the hobby, the holy grail of RC pilots has been to have models that fly like full-scale planes. "Bigger flies better" is the primary reason that large & giant-scale aircraft exist. Now, we can have what nearly every RC'er has dreamed about since childhood - full-house planes that can fly in the backyard, with flight-behaviors that are similar to their large-scale (or even full-scale) counterparts. I have been waiting for this since I was a grade-school kid back in the mid-60s - building & flying free-flight kits....wishing that I could control my planes while walking alongside them. I dreamed of full-house warbirds, g/a planes, and aerobatic ships that I could fly in the yard. This stuff is a dream come true!!

The only reason I started flying giant-scale 20 years ago is because I prefer models that fly like their full-scale counterparts. If I could fly scale ships in my backyard that behave similar to their large-scale brethren, I would have little reason to spend all of that money on giant-scale! I see no downside, here!

Fly-by-wire, on-board telemetry, integrated FPV - bring on the technology! I have absolutely no desire to return to the old days. I've been there, and things weren't all that rosy.

Joel
I like these small planes so much I'll sell all my big stuff !
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 09:59 PM
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My first ultra-micro RC airplane was the Parkzone J3 Cub. It still flies but the inexpensive tiny brushed motor wears out soon so now it has its 6th motor.

My 2nd ultra-micro RC airplane was tyhe Parkzone P51 Mustang and its bigger brushed motors lasted longer than the tiny motor in the J3 cub but they still wore out.
My polecat is still new but is on its 2nd brushed motor from my Mustang.

My ultra-micro S-Bach has a brushless motor (the same motor is in the Carbon Cub) and it keeps on going without wearing out.
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Old Feb 07, 2012, 11:26 PM
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where to buy????????
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hot_Wheels View Post
where to buy????????
Here
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ub-ss-EFLU1180

I want to know, when will it be here?
Ron
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 11:02 AM
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I think it said Feb 28th at the toy fair review
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MrWokn View Post
I think it said Feb 28th at the toy fair review
Ho, ho

That's a definite maybe(not)

I've learned to be skeptical until the thing is in my hand!

Pete
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