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Old Feb 15, 2012, 01:09 PM
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I wouldn't want anything non-scale, and I think it would be very difficult to make scale spoilers with scale like actuation in a plane this small. We also don't know how thick the wing is and if the airfoil resembles a scale airfoil or it's under cambered.

Pete
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 01:59 PM
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There is the tow hook release servo. I will probably never use that feature, so i would probably take it out and adjust the cg. But its there if you can figure out a brake feature for it. It really probably isn't that needed, its so small it'll probably do very tight circles infront of you until it lands.
I read an article about how pilots would land at the Baghdad airport, they would come in steep, and circle the runway until they were low and slow enough to come right out of the circle and land, this made it very hard for anyone to hit landing aircraft with small arms fire and such. Ive personally found that technique very useful to take some of the guess work out of landing, just circle over the entry until its low enough and pointed the right direction.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteSchug View Post
I wouldn't want anything non-scale, and I think it would be very difficult to make scale spoilers with scale like actuation in a plane this small. We also don't know how thick the wing is and if the airfoil resembles a scale airfoil or it's under cambered.

Pete
ask-21 with brakes, that would be hard to fit in the wing, also would probably add considerable weight since this plane is so small.


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Old Feb 15, 2012, 07:38 PM
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I was thinking a custom made balsa/ply "barn door" job, might add 4 or 5 grams with servo. I see it has a different type now.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Little weight would be added if you took out the tow cable release servo.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrizz View Post
Do they realy call the use of a towplane "Hi-start launch system"...?
I was more hoping for some kind of winch or bungee... :-(
hi-start system is a bungee as far as i know.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:04 AM
cheapskate extroardinairé
United States, CA, Marin
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Unfortunately where I fly it is completely flat. May have to move to Colorado...
that is what thermals are for
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:08 AM
cheapskate extroardinairé
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i wonder, could a champ tug this? or what about the micro j3 clone hobbyking is selling for $50?
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 09:14 AM
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Without modding I doubt the champ could do it, I know nothing about the hk though.

as to the guy worries about flatness, you can get great thermals and with the hi start you will likely get a minute or two of gliding even if you never catch the heat
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by baconflyer View Post
i wonder, could a champ tug this? or what about the micro j3 clone hobbyking is selling for $50?
You'd need the power of a 2s setup, or at least a Champ with a Bravo SX motor/GWs 5043/Hyperion 240 mAh setup. However, the Champ & other 3-channel 1s UMs w/undercambered airfoils & no AS3X systems would still be poor choices for aerotowing, due to their poor wind-handling capabilities & lack of ailerons.

Joel
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
.....the Champ & other 3-channel 1s UMs w/undercambered airfoils & no AS3X systems would still be poor choices for aerotowing, due to their poor wind-handling capabilities.......
Joel
really? poor wind-handling???

It's a pillar of faith for me that the Champ is superior to most UM's in the wind!

When the wind picks up -- and most other guys sit down -- I get up off the bench, swagger out to the flight line, and wind-surf my Champ.

As a pilot, I'm pretty average (at best) -- so that means a lot to me, because I don't get many other opportunities to show off!



(Granted no AS3X and ailerons, and puny brushed motor, but still.....)
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pugsam View Post
really? poor wind-handling???

It's a pillar of faith for me that the Champ is superior to most UM's in the wind!

When the wind picks up -- and most other guys sit down -- I get up off the bench, swagger out to the flight line, and wind-surf my Champ.

As a pilot, I'm pretty average (at best) -- so that means a lot to me, because I don't get many other opportunities to show off!



(Granted no AS3X and ailerons, and puny brushed motor, but still.....)
My experience is that the Champ's wind-handling capability absolutely pales in comparison to that of the Sukhoi XP, Pole Cat, Sbach, and either version of the Beast. The XP can easily handle 10-15 MPH winds. So can the Pole Cat, Sbach & Beast V1. The stock Champ's top speed in level flight is less than 15 MPH. Plus, it's impossible to do crosswind takeoffs & landings with a 3-channel plane, as there is no way to do a side-slip, forward-slip or cross-wind crab.

Sailplane pilots don't wait for calm days to fly. Often, some wind is desirable. Crosswind takeoffs are often required. The Champ (or any other RET plane) is simply the wrong tool for the job.

Joel
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
My experience is that the Champ's wind-handling capability absolutely pales in comparison to that of the Sukhoi XP, Pole Cat, Sbach, and either version of the Beast. The XP can easily handle 10-15 MPH winds. So can the Pole Cat, Sbach & Beast V1. The stock Champ's top speed in level flight is less than 15 MPH. Plus, it's impossible to do crosswind takeoffs & landings with a 3-channel plane, as there is no way to do a side-slip, forward-slip or cross-wind crab.
Sailplane pilots don't wait for calm days to fly. Often, some wind is desirable. Crosswind takeoffs are often required. The Champ (or any other RET plane) is simply the wrong tool for the job.
Joel
You're talking a more sophisticated level of "wind-handling" than I am.

Crosswind landings and takeoffs? Pfffft!!! Who needs them when you can pop-up or -down into the wind in a couple of feet!!! (And, ya know, I can take-off my Champ in any crosswind that doesn't blow it over first!)

Slips? Crabbing? Towing gliders? Puh-leeeze!!!! It doesn't do windows, either!

For me, the Champ's wind-handling means simply this:

I can fly it -- while laughing out loud with pleasure the whole time -- in wind speeds and variable gusts that would cause me to crash something like the Sukhoi, Sbach or Beast v1.

Not fancy aerobatics. At least, not planned.

Not powering through the wind. (If the windspeed is greater than the Champ's max airspeed, I fly upwind by tacking.)

The bottom line is that it's a Fearless Flyer -- when better pilots than I stay on the sidelines, rather than risk their Thoroughbreds of the Air!

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Old Feb 16, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsam View Post
You're talking a more sophisticated level of "wind-handling" than I am.

Crosswind landings and takeoffs? Pfffft!!! Who needs them when you can pop-up or -down into the wind in a couple of feet!!! (And, ya know, I can take-off my Champ in any crosswind that doesn't blow it over first!)

Slips? Crabbing? Towing gliders? Puh-leeeze!!!! It doesn't do windows, either!

For me, the Champ's wind-handling means simply this:

I can fly it -- while laughing out loud with pleasure the whole time -- in wind speeds and variable gusts that would cause me to crash something like the Sukhoi, Sbach or Beast v1.

Not fancy aerobatics. At least, not planned.

Not powering through the wind. (If the windspeed is greater than the Champ's max airspeed, I fly upwind by tacking.)

The bottom line is that it's a Fearless Flyer -- when better pilots than I stay on the sidelines, rather than risk their Thoroughbreds of the Air!

Wow. You're the first person I know who thinks the Champ handles wind better than the XP Sbach, or Beast. Have you actually flown the XP, Sbach, or Beast in windy conditions? I maidened my V1 Beast in a gusty 17 MPH wind with no problems at all. The Beast 3D laughs at 20 MPH winds, and there are videos of people flying it in 30 MPH winds! The Champ gets blown all over the place in a 7-10 MPH wind. There is absolutely no comparison.

The stock UM Champ will not be a decent towplane for the ASK21. A decent glider tug needs plenty of power & full controls. In stock form, the UM Champ has neither of the above. BTW - slips & crosswind-crabbing are not considered exotic or advanced maneuvers. Rather, they are considered standard 'intermediate pilot' skills.

Joel
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 03:36 PM
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You're rebutting things that I'm not saying!

It's not important.........

What counts is that we're enjoying our flying!

Dave



ps - Yes the Beast v2 is another one that I love in the wind
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