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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:08 PM
Chef Pilot: Planes vs Butter
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United States, VA, Hamilton
Joined Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by midnite View Post
Ok.

My attitude is this is like a new car - always take extra care and worry until the first inevitable paint chip.
But I always hate it when it happens pulling out of the dealership parking lot
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ChinoDiablo View Post
But I always hate it when it happens pulling out of the dealership parking lot
Yep, but somehow it's always better if you do it yourself.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:33 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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USA, KY, Hebron
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
On the timer, Yeah I easily get 7 minutes of scale flying on my BabbelBat 180mAh packs.

As to the roll, First on initialization, The plane does not have to be upright, only still. I flip the plane upside down and hang the tail off the edge of the box so that it is sitting on the wings. This way the plane is perfectly still, Plug in the battery and hold the plane there until I hear the 3 ascending tone beep, count 1....2....3.... then put the battery in, finally flip the plane.

There should be no roll, How does the rudder look? There is some roll coupling from rudder.

Are the ailerons equal? Did one of the U bends get tweaked making one aileron off center? If you post a pic of the ailerons, and one of the enpennage (straight on from the rear) I'll take a look.

-Brian
Thanks Brian. I had a closer look at the rudder (now that I'm not in a hurry to beat sunset!) and although the top was straight, it had a bit of a curve to it if you looked top down. The curve was to the left, which would lead to the left roll I was experiencing.

In the process of un-curling it, some wrinkles were created in the right side surface of the rudder. I'm sure it won't affect performance, but frustrating as the rest of her is so pretty

Tomorrow should be another good flight opportunity (rare this time of year). We'll see if the rudder curl was the issue, but it seems very likely.

P.S. I inspected each of the ailerons & flaps closely - everything is nice and straight in that area.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:35 PM
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USA, KY, Hebron
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
On the timer, Yeah I easily get 7 minutes of scale flying on my BabbelBat 180mAh packs.

As to the roll, First on initialization, The plane does not have to be upright, only still. I flip the plane upside down and hang the tail off the edge of the box so that it is sitting on the wings. This way the plane is perfectly still, Plug in the battery and hold the plane there until I hear the 3 ascending tone beep, count 1....2....3.... then put the battery in, finally flip the plane.

There should be no roll, How does the rudder look? There is some roll coupling from rudder.

Are the ailerons equal? Did one of the U bends get tweaked making one aileron off center? If you post a pic of the ailerons, and one of the enpennage (straight on from the rear) I'll take a look.

-Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Yeah, a number of people have done battery load tests & static RPM tests with the popular UMX packs - including me. Nothing comes close to the TP 325 65c packs. Not even the new Hyperion VX 500 35c packs - which are the second-best performers, followed by the Hyp VX 400 35c packs. And then there's the difference in cycle-life. The Nanos won't last for hundreds of cycles like the Hyp & TP packs do.

If you want to see some recent UMX pack test data, check out the UMX MiG 15 mod thread. You'll have to dig a few pages, but someone posted an excellent test-report w/discharge graphs, comparing a number of the popular packs at various currents.



There is a proper way to flight-trim a plane, and the steps must be followed in the correct order. Here's the trimming section of the CC handling checklist I put together awhile back:

1) Visually inspect the alignment of all flying surfaces with respect to the fuselage & each other. Also check the alignment of the tailwheel with respect to the rudder. For best results, any visible misalignment should be corrected before proceeding further.

2) Be sure that the plane remains motionless during the first 5 seconds after connecting the battery. The plane can be on its back or in any other position during initialization, provided that it remains motionless during the process.
Move the aileron pushrods to the innermost or second hole out. Move the rudder & elevator pushrods to the innermost holes. If the plane seems overly sensitive, try adding a bit of expo, rather than reducing throw - as there will be times when full control authority is needed.

3)
Mechanically trim the plane by adjusting the pushrod U-bends so that little, if any tx trim is required for straight & level flight in zero wind at 50-75% throttle. AS3X interprets excessive trim (more than a few clicks) as command inputs, so tx trim should be used sparingly. Also - never use sub-trims with AS3X. Ideally, flight-trimming should be done in dead-calm conditions. The next best alternative would be flying directly away from yourself into a light, but steady headwind.

4) Measure the CG, then perform an in-flight CG test & adjust as needed: If you need up-elevator trim (mechanical or on the tx) for level flight at 50-75% throttle, the plane is overly nose-heavy. If the nose drops like a rock in turns and/or when power is reduced, the plane is overly nose-heavy. If the plane is trimmed for level flight at 50-75% throttle and it balloons when you go to full power, it's overly nose-heavy. If the nose comes up or doesn't drop at all when you cut the power, it's very tail-heavy. If the plane seems to be overly sensitive to micro-turbulence, it's also tail-heavy. (You can actually hear the difference by listening to the sound of AS3X working the servos.) When the CG is about right, the nose should drop slightly as the plane slows after the throttle is pulled back. If the plane is trimmed for level flight @ 50-75% throttle and you go to full power, the plane should gain altitude, but the nose should come up only slightly, if at all. Measure the CG again after the final adjustment for future reference.


Joel
Hi Joel - just a quick note - in step 2 you suggest different pushrod locations for the control surfaces than you mentioned earlier in this thread. It's probably as those instructions were for another model, but I think it is worth clarifying to prevent future confusion.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:42 PM
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I just ordered one of these with floats to fly from the pond in my back yard....Can't wait!!!...I have an account with Wholesale Trains and got the plane for $145...Floats were also discounted to $17 + some change...

Again---Can't hardly wait toget his puppy in and test the waters with floats and full flaps!!!

Kevin
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:45 PM
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USA, KY, Hebron
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
I just ordered one of these with floats to fly from the pond in my back yard....Can't wait!!!...I have an account with Wholesale Trains and got the plane for $145...Floats were also discounted to $17 + some change...

Again---Can't hardly wait toget his puppy in and test the waters with floats and full flaps!!!

Kevin
She looks great on the floats. They're a bit fiddly to put together (hold the plastic blocks with pliers when first installing the screws. I nearly twisted one off when I was holding just the float.

Don't know when I'll get to fly on mine. We have some small lakes in our subdivision, but winds are rarely calm. I've never flown floats before, so a calm day is necessary!
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by habitforming View Post
Thanks Brian. I had a closer look at the rudder (now that I'm not in a hurry to beat sunset!) and although the top was straight, it had a bit of a curve to it if you looked top down. The curve was to the left, which would lead to the left roll I was experiencing.

In the process of un-curling it, some wrinkles were created in the right side surface of the rudder. I'm sure it won't affect performance, but frustrating as the rest of her is so pretty

...
MIne was exactly the same and I did what you did to correct it.

I looked at two samples at the LHS and they were both the same. This is probably common with what ever batch ours came from.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:28 PM
Raikkonen for President
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United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnite View Post
MIne was exactly the same and I did what you did to correct it.

I looked at two samples at the LHS and they were both the same. This is probably common with what ever batch ours came from.
Mine did the left turn, I'll have to inspect for curled rudder too. Also I purchased new landing gear after my right wheel separated on takeoff, losing the keepers, and one of the screws on the landing gear brackets had the head badly stripped out. I had to file the head to get a flathead screwdriver on it. irritating!
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 08:10 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by habitforming View Post
Hi Joel - just a quick note - in step 2 you suggest different pushrod locations for the control surfaces than you mentioned earlier in this thread. It's probably as those instructions were for another model, but I think it is worth clarifying to prevent future confusion.
HF,

Thanks for letting me know. When the CC was first released, I had the rudder & elevator pushrods in the second hole out. I soon found that more elevator authority was needed in order to execute a proper 3-point landing, and that more rudder authority was needed for crosswind landings, etc. I also tried the ailerons on the innermost holes, but found that doing so increased the effective gain too much - so I went back to the second hole out on the ailerons. Currently, I fly with the rudder & elevator all the way in & the ailerons in the second hole out. It's a matter of preference, rather than an absolute thing.

Joel
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:27 AM
Parkzone junkie
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by Audioguru View Post
The propellor spins to the right so the torque of the motor causes the entire airplane to roll to the left. Add a little right rudder and/or right aileron to the linkages.
Here are the left turning tendencies in conventional single engine propeller airplanes:
1) Propeller Disc Asymmetric loading aka. P-factor - Caused by the descending blade on the descending blade on the right being at a higher angle to the relative wind and therefore producing more thrust than the ascending blade on the left.

2) Torque - as you mentioned, This is Newtons third law, prop spins right so an equal an opposite force is exerted on the plane to the left(roll)

3) Spiraling slipstream - Because the prop it rotating it doesn't blow air straight back, The air actually spirals clockwise like the prop motion. This air spirals under the fuse and up the left side and hits the vertical tail. This actually pushes the tail to the right slightly causing left yaw and incidentally a very small amount of right roll. Though that right roll is in most cases not noticed as all the left turning tendencies more than overpower it.

4) Procession - This is really only a factor in attitude changes though mainly on takeoffs. As the tail raises if applies a force to the Propeller ( in this case it is acting as a huge gyroscope) When a force is applied to a gyroscope it is translated 90* in the direction of rotation. In this case it is pushed down which translates 90* to become left. The faster the rotation the more force which means more left yaw.

fyi: A lot of modern planes have built in countermeasures like tail slightly offset, etc.

-Brian
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Current Pricing

Any deals around?
My early version is about had it, broke wing when tree sprouted out of now where yesterday.
Tim
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:52 PM
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"Floaters"????....

Have something I think is funny to tell you guys---Some of you may remember in the Sbach hover contest when I put my Sbach in the pond???....I have a few extra hobby $$$ to spend so the other day I was looking on the computer for planes to buy....My wife was looking over my shoulder as I was scoping out the Carbon Cub...She excitedly tells me to "Get THAT ONE!!!"...I asked her why and she said because it says you can get "floaters" for it...I said, "floaters???"....She said, "Yeah---Since most of your planes wind up in the pond you might as well get the one with floaters----It at least belongs on the water..."......I didn't know whether to kiss her or slap her around a little--(Just kidding on slapping her around!!!)

So, how about THAT!?!?!???......So---I'm getting a CC with "floaters".......

Kevin
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by w4yn View Post
Any deals around?
My early version is about had it, broke wing when tree sprouted out of now where yesterday.
Tim
If you are a member of Wholesale Trains buyers club you can get the plane for $145...

Kevin
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 02:39 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
Have something I think is funny to tell you guys---Some of you may remember in the Sbach hover contest when I put my Sbach in the pond???....I have a few extra hobby $$$ to spend so the other day I was looking on the computer for planes to buy....My wife was looking over my shoulder as I was scoping out the Carbon Cub...She excitedly tells me to "Get THAT ONE!!!"...I asked her why and she said because it says you can get "floaters" for it...I said, "floaters???"....She said, "Yeah---Since most of your planes wind up in the pond you might as well get the one with floaters----It at least belongs on the water..."......I didn't know whether to kiss her or slap her around a little--(Just kidding on slapping her around!!!)

So, how about THAT!?!?!???......So---I'm getting a CC with "floaters".......

Kevin
Now, that's a classic! You are truly blessed! I'm looking at my floater-equipped CC, still chuckling.....

I was just thinking......most many some of us would give up our entire hangars for a wife like that. But then, what would be the point in having an RC-friendly wife?

Joel
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 02:39 PM
Parkzone junkie
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United States, MI, Grand Traverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Greene View Post
Have something I think is funny to tell you guys---Some of you may remember in the Sbach hover contest when I put my Sbach in the pond???....I have a few extra hobby $$$ to spend so the other day I was looking on the computer for planes to buy....My wife was looking over my shoulder as I was scoping out the Carbon Cub...She excitedly tells me to "Get THAT ONE!!!"...I asked her why and she said because it says you can get "floaters" for it...I said, "floaters???"....She said, "Yeah---Since most of your planes wind up in the pond you might as well get the one with floaters----It at least belongs on the water..."......I didn't know whether to kiss her or slap her around a little--(Just kidding on slapping her around!!!)

So, how about THAT!?!?!???......So---I'm getting a CC with "floaters".......

Kevin
On that note I'd be photo-shopping some "floaters" onto a DX18, Piper Archer, Habu2, and that new Carden 89" Extra300.

-Brian
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