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Old May 13, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by whirlcap View Post
Did you check the CG? It should balance 27mm back from the leading edge of the wing. Could be rolling left from either the ailerons or more likely the rudder. Check the rudder closely, mine will sit after putting the battery in with some right rudder, then it will center after the throttle is brought up a bit and cut. The AS3X is then active ( if you move the plane by hand, it will respond) and the rudder will go back to center. Try that and see if all surfaces are centered then. I have tried to center all trims and rebind it but it still works this way. Also make sure you centered your trims when you bound yours and that your not using more than a click or two of trim when you fly it. If too much trim has been applied to center the controls, the AS3X may be putting in some unwanted control input causing your problem.
I think I see why it rolls left so much, I think my wing is deformed. The trailing edge of the left wing is higher than the right wing. Anybody else have this problem? I'll see if the lhs has any more, I might be bringing this one back.
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Dear Mr Horizon Hobby. If you are reading this you may have noticed quite a few people are complaining about failing servos on the new UM Carbon Cub. I myself have not noticed any problems, however with so many others having problems I am actually getting scared to fly now and seem to spend most of my flying time watching for an elevator to fail rather than fly the thing and enjoy. Two different problems seem to be emerging most frequently and that is possible dirty tracks within the servo and overdriving the servo by using it at it's designed limits, i.e..100%. If you are reading this can I suggest for the first problem you buy yourselves a can of DeoxIT, store servos in a clean location and ask workers to wash hands before assembling! For the second problem of servos not liking 100% throw. Can I suggest you add a little extra software in that nice little bit of electronic gubbins called AS3X that stops the servos being driven past whatever you consider the danger point. That way whatever silly settings or mixes us mere mortals put in that may screw the servo to death can't happen. Like in those big real life fly by wire fighter jet thingies do. Apart from that, I think it's a brilliant little plane.

P.S. Any feedback on the possibility of a problem either on website or via dealers is very much appreciated.

Lets hope they read it
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
How did you find installing the floats on the Carbon Cub? I just started to assemble the floats, and immediately one of the four supplied screws to hold the wires in the plastic blocks stripped out the head. I'm surprised they use such soft screws. Did you have problems with this? Thanks.

Gordon
I realized by the torque it took to tighten the screw that it was gonna strip. I used vice grips to tighten the rest of the way. If I did it again, I would drill the holes with a proper size hole.
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:58 AM
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I think you nailed that one! take it back!
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Originally Posted by DanReidy View Post
I think I see why it rolls left so much, I think my wing is deformed. The trailing edge of the left wing is higher than the right wing. Anybody else have this problem? I'll see if the lhs has any more, I might be bringing this one back.
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:41 AM
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United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Jan 2007
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I got my Cub, and barely any movement on the elevator and rudder. BUT it seems to be more of a control rod bending problem and not an actuator problem.
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Deoxit

Just lightly coat the whole servo?
Finally got a CC that works.....like to try to keep it that way.
No problem if I dumb it.....but watching a new plane fall out of the sky cause of a servo....ouch.
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
A second question. Has anyone set up the CC with a DX7 transmitter for flaps yet? I've never done flaps on a plane before. I'm trying to do what the DX7 manual says to do, but no success mixing in some down elevator yet to coincide with the flaps.

Gordon
I have my CC set up in the DX7. I ended up with 4 flap positions. But I'm not using any elevator mixing. I feel it's up to the pilot to do that so as to have a better feel of the plane..
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:13 AM
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Joel, I understand the dual rate thing, but I really like to have dual rates on my Carbon Z so I can use it as a purely aerobatic plane on low rates and can throw the sticks hard to max without thinking if I want. Seems more relaxing for me than leaving them on high and having to remember that I can't throw them all the way hard when flying that way, but realize it's sort of what you get used to. Your second paragraph on the description of landing technique sounds exactly like I land my rc planes. The thing I thought I do different were where you mention the flair right before touchdown. That is the part I don't do. I always plan to put them down on the mains and then let the tail settle (or the nose wheel as the case may be) after I'm on the ground. This is the one thing I'm finding simple with the cc. Never played much with flaps, but this thing will fly slow straight and stable with full flaps and let me come down on the mains without a bounce. Also find it neat to fly full circuits around the field a couple of feet off the ground with almost no power and full flaps. I do still want to get out in a breeze and give the stabilization a test. I have flaps and spoilerons set up on my Carbon z, but find absolutely no need for them. I also have this set up on my mini funtanax and really need to play with them on it - it is tougher to land and is so touchy about up elev at landing that a tad too much wants to overreact and put the nose back up in the air and either flair and stall or fly again. Got to get the speed just right, so it's either more practice or be able to manage the speed a bit better or learn to do it with the flapperons or spoilerons.
Bobly,

I misunderstood you back when we first discussed landing techniques. Sorry about that! I was under the impression that you flew throttle for speed & elevator for altitude on approach. Looks like we're just talking about the difference between landing on the mains or doing a full-stall three-point landing. I use both techniques. However, dad taught me to do three-point landings when he was teaching me to fly full-scale (all of his planes were taildraggers), so that's my natural preference. If I've got plenty of room, say at the club field - I sometimes like to land with the tail still flying & let it settle as the plane slows down. I think it looks really cool. When I fly in smaller areas, I always do 3-pointers. Problem is - the CC is the first taildragger I've ever flown that lacks the elevator authority to execute a proper flare. This is often a sign of a nose-heavy condition, but when I moved the CG aft far enough for a power-off flare, the plane flew very tail-heavy. My conclusion is that the root-cause is most likely insufficient elevator throw, rather than CG placement. Not a big deal to me, as learning to adapt one's flying technique to suit a particular aircraft is an integral part of advancing one's flying skills.

Was hoping to spend a few hours this morning shooting touch & goes with the CC, but the wind was already up to 15-20 MPH by the time I finished my morning coffee. Guess that'll have to wait. However, a good 20 MPH wind is just about perfect for flying stationary aerobatics with the Beast 3D. Time to charge my Hyp 180 3s Babblebatts!

Joel
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DanReidy View Post
I think I see why it rolls left so much, I think my wing is deformed. The trailing edge of the left wing is higher than the right wing. Anybody else have this problem? I'll see if the lhs has any more, I might be bringing this one back.
I was having what I felt to be excessive left roll after my initial mechanical trimming. It's improved dramatically with additional trimming but it still exists. I just took a look at my cub and it does have a slight warp but nowhere near as drastic as it appears on yours. I only have 6 flights on mine so I need to dial in my CG and a touch more mechanical trim before I can blame the "warp".
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
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United States, CT, Thompson
Joined Mar 2007
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Prop & Flap question

Hey guys, great thread, I got a lot of useful info here. I picked up the carbon cub yesterday from my local hobby shop. I did a maiden today and the plane flew great. I am a noob with only experience with a champ and UM T-28. I found the CC to be pretty easy to fly, much more stable than the T-28. It does ground loop real easy though. No stuck servos to report thus far. I agree with other posters that it does not self correct like the champ. It also comes in a little hotter without the flaps at least, so I would not consider this a good trainer. A good third plane though in my opinion.

I think my prop might be out of balance because of some vibrations sounds at certain throttle percentages. How would I check this? Do I need a special balancing tool? I was hoping I would not have to remove the prop and that a little tape would solve the problem. Any help would be appreciated.

I have a dx7 and I mixed the gear channel to the flap switch to take advantage of the three positions. It works perfectly with no throttle, but with throttle the switch does nothing. For those that have a dx7 any idea where I went wrong? Thanks in advance guys.
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:34 AM
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
How did you find installing the floats on the Carbon Cub? I just started to assemble the floats, and immediately one of the four supplied screws to hold the wires in the plastic blocks stripped out the head. I'm surprised they use such soft screws. Did you have problems with this? Thanks.

Gordon
Gordon,

While test-fitting the parts prior to assembly, I realized that the torque required would likely strip the screw heads. I used a mini Vise-Grip to tighten the screws, as Gatorb8 did. I worked the screws in gradually by screwing them in few turns, backing them out a bit to chase the threads, then screwing them in a bit further - rather than attempting to screw them in all the way in a single step. With my ground vehicles & larger aircraft, I typically replace slotted & Phillips fasteners with Allen-headed hardware. Doing it again, I would simply use better-quality screws w/Allen heads on these floats.

Joel
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
When I got my CC, the first thing the guy at my LHS said to do was dial back the throws on m TX to 80% before I even bind the plane. That's what I did and I haven't had any problems at all. I wonder how many people with failed servos were running full 100% throws. I also have the micro F27Q Stryker and the rudder servos used to bind up at 100% too. After I cut back the throws, I never had any problems with it either.

I flew the CC almost exclusively yesterday and lost track of how many flights I did. I just kept charging batts and flying. I love this little bird! It's not as aerobatic as I'd like though. May have to get the Beast.
On the servo hangups, I absolutely know on mine and from most descriptions seems like others also that it had nothing to do with overtravel lockup of the servos. Mine would stop working in any position it decided to. It was just as likely, if not more so to be neutral when it quit. After cleaning with deoxit, I have been flying it ever since at 100% throws. On these little servos, you can visually watch them work and make sure 100% isn't driving it clear to the end of the travel. Mine is not, but if I see that on one of these, I will dial the max back until I see that it is not being driven to the end of travel.
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
Dbl
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United States, MN, New Hope
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Dbl,

Nice! Do you fly for pleasure, or commercially? I haven't seen many Cubs on amphibs. Aren't they a bit on the heavy side for a Cub? I grew up on Lake of the Woods in northern MN. My dad went on floats every summer for most of his 34 years as a game warden/bush pilot. He never had amphibs, though. He taught me how to do water takeoffs & landings in his Cessna 180 back when I was in high-school. Was a lot of fun. There were three flying services operating off the river back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. About every half-hour from dawn to dusk during the summer, the sound of Continental O-470 & O-540 engines mixed with the sound of prop-tips going supersonic filled the air. I got to the point where I could tell which plane was taking off & which pilot was flying just by the engine sound. I really miss those sounds...

Back to the CC on floats - using ailerons with rudder while taxiing makes sense. I was wondering about the handling in crosswinds, given the narrow track. If you keep the stick into the wind, is there enough aileron authority to keep the windward wing down in a 5 MPH crosswind? I hadn't thought about the lack of spray rails until you mentioned it. I bet the water went everywhere! Let us know what you come up with. I've been flying RC for 28 years, but the CC is my first plane with floats. Now I just need to find some water around here!

Joel
Joel,

I do fly commercially, just finished my 30th year. Been a pilot since 1976. I also have over 5,000 of dual given. I do take a bit of different take than you on your speed with elevator & descent-rate with throttle. Honestly it is a combination of what you need for the situation. In jets we tend do the exact opposite, when on a stabilized approach power controls speed. There is validity to both schools of thought and frankly when teaching students I don't preach one over the other but use a combination of what you need to for the situation.

Example, low to the ground and stalling would you lower the nose to gain speed? The practical test standards that are used dictate that altitude loss be negligible so you add power and use a slight reduction in pitch until speed is sufficient to begin climbing. In all cases you have to maintain control of the airplane. So a combination of controls for the situation is the safest method.

In RC I tend to use pitch to control my angle of descent and power to manage my speed like I do in jets. It happens to work nicely for me but as always your mileage may vary. I honestly don't get to hung up on one way or the other as long as your approach is stabilized and frankly you rarely change one without changing the other. That is the key to any good landing. The most common mistake I see in RC is way to high an approach and then diving and driving to a spot on landing.

The super cub with 180hp does just fine on amphibs. The carbon cub can handle 5mph on water even with a crosswind just fine with plenty of control authority. As long as you use a combination of power, ailerons, and rudder it handles just fine during water taxi. I've found that to be true on the Hobbyzone Cub as well, my other main float flyer. Easily half my RC time is float flying or skis!

I was flying this morning in that 10-15mph wind and the cub is a hoot! Landings are an adventure! I agree that this thing looses elevator authority relatively quickly when slowing. I have moved my control rods in and that seems to help but you can still run out of control authority if you don't plan properly.

Someone mentioned building the floats. The screws do turn in way to hard! I was very careful and applied pressure straight down and managed to get it together without twisting off a screw or stripping out the hole but it is a challenge!

To Warhorse, if you read most of the servo problems folks had already dialed back their throws. Examine the servos and you can see the dull sheen that looks like the start of corrosion. Honestly I cleaned all of my servos with DeoxIT and haven't had a problem since, not just the ones that were sticking. I have 15 flights in the last two days with nary a hic up (fingers crossed).

Here is a short video with some water flying and the CC from Saturday.

Carbon Cub on Floats (2 min 48 sec)
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Disassembled mine and shot all the servos with Deoxit. Seem much smoother! No worries now.
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:54 AM
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Lwsroc240 View Post
........I think my prop might be out of balance because of some vibrations sounds at certain throttle percentages. How would I check this? Do I need a special balancing tool? I was hoping I would not have to remove the prop and that a little tape would solve the problem. Any help would be appreciated..............
Lwsroc,

Mine was significantly out of balance, as well. To balance these props, I just put a small piece of clear packing tape on the back of one blade near the tip & spool it up in my hand. If the vibration increases, I move the tape to the other blade & spool it up again. If it gets better, but there is still some vibration, I then add a second piece of tape & see what happens. If it gets gets worse, I move the second piece of tape closer to the hub. If that doesn't work, I remove the second piece of tape & move the first piece closer to the hub. After getting the hang of it, I can usually get it pretty close within 3 or 4 iterations. Not the most elegant or most accurate method, but I have found it to be sufficient for these planes.

Others remove the prop & statically balance it, like everyone does with larger props. Some use tape, but others use paint or clear fingernail polish on the light blade. Either method will work.

Joel
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