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Old May 12, 2012, 11:14 PM
Dbl
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United States, MN, New Hope
Joined Aug 2010
60 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Dbl,

Great pics - especially the water shots! There's just something about a Cub on floats....

I haven't had a chance to fly mine on floats. I was wondering about maneuverability at taxi speeds without a water rudder. How's the rudder authority? Did you need to blip the throttle a bit to initiate a turn?

Joel
Joel, as long as you use a bit of power and use the ailerons as well as the rudder it turns very nice on the water even with 5-10mph of wind. Won't turn worth a darn if you only use the rudder with a little wind. I have some video of it on the water today but can't seem to embed it from my own website. That shows the turning capability with a little wind.

It gets off the water as fast as it jumps off the ground. Two downsides...it throws water everywhere!!! I mean the whole darn plane gets wet! Good thing the servo covers are on the wing or you would be in trouble! I did have one aileron servo get wet and act up. Had to stop and get it home and dry it out to get it working again.

I think I am going to design spray rails along the side. The other downside is the narrowness of the floats. If they where one float wider it would make a world of difference. Get it in a bit of a crosswind and you had better be using real crosswind techniques or it flips on its side very fast... don't ask how I know that.

All in all it is a blast on water. I flew three batteries tonight again until about 1/2 hours after sunset and looking at it you would swear you where looking at a full-scale plane flying off into the sunset.

This happens to be one of the real ones I fly off of amphibs. There truly is nothing like a cub on floats!
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Old May 12, 2012, 11:26 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
11,778 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
Joel, sound like you are landing it my way now. Thus far, landings have been the best part of my experience with the cc, but I always fly my planes all the way to the ground, just the way I started. I managed to have a senior moment and crunch mine today. Had been flying my Carbon Z on low rates and went to the cub and forgot to put transmitter back on high rates - made a dumb thumb move and didn't have enough authority on controls to save it. If I had not had to overcome the gyro first, could have made it I think. Not bad though, all fixed now. Flimsy prop adapter broke and prop went over the top and crunched up the hood over the motor area and cracked one wing right at the fuse. At least I've now got my ICU prop adapter in it so won't break that again when I have another senior moment. I will second the point of it being touchy on cg. There was another guy at the field this morning that got another one out of the same batch at the lhs and he didn't even bring it and was totally fed up with it. I tried to stress the cg issue and was going to demonstrate until I ended my cc cub flying early like I did. Also, breeze picked up to 12-14 mph and I wanted to fly it so bad it hurt to see the gyro in action.
Bobly,

Bummer! At least you got her patched up. That is the primary reason I don't use dual rates. I just dial up some expo instead, so that maximum control authority is always available, if needed. Back when dual-rates first came out, I watched a pilot lose a $2k+ plane because he forgot to switch rates. I told myself right then that I would not be using a rate switch when I upgraded from my old 4-chan AM rig. So, I bought a rig with expo instead - which was also a new thing at the the time. Given that all passenger cars & trucks have exponential steering, and given that the control geometry on many full-scale planes provides what is essentially mechanical expo - using expo on my RC vehicles seemed to be a natural choice.

No, I'm not landing the way you do. I'm still landing the way I always have since I learned to fly RC. I'm just carrying a bit more power with the flaps extended, and I'm keeping a bit of power on during the rollout to keep the tail flying as the plane slows down, so I can do scale-looking two-wheel landings without ground-looping. I still manage speed with elevator & manage descent-rate with throttle - as I suggested you should do. Full-scale pilots land this way. Advanced RC pilots land this way. Pro RC pilots land this way. Every large & giant-scale pilot I have ever flown with in 28 years of flying RC lands this way.

If you want to advance your flying skills to the point where you are able to put nearly any plane down where you want it to be, are able to land in tight spots, and are able to deal with steep approaches - you need to work on unlearning your bad landing habits & start practicing the landing technique I suggested. Only then will you be truly in control of your landings. This is simply how it is.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; May 13, 2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old May 13, 2012, 12:29 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
11,778 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbl View Post
Joel, as long as you use a bit of power and use the ailerons as well as the rudder it turns very nice on the water even with 5-10mph of wind. Won't turn worth a darn if you only use the rudder with a little wind. I have some video of it on the water today but can't seem to embed it from my own website. That shows the turning capability with a little wind.

It gets off the water as fast as it jumps off the ground. Two downsides...it throws water everywhere!!! I mean the whole darn plane gets wet! Good thing the servo covers are on the wing or you would be in trouble! I did have one aileron servo get wet and act up. Had to stop and get it home and dry it out to get it working again.

I think I am going to design spray rails along the side. The other downside is the narrowness of the floats. If they where one float wider it would make a world of difference. Get it in a bit of a crosswind and you had better be using real crosswind techniques or it flips on its side very fast... don't ask how I know that.

All in all it is a blast on water. I flew three batteries tonight again until about 1/2 hours after sunset and looking at it you would swear you where looking at a full-scale plane flying off into the sunset.

This happens to be one of the real ones I fly off of amphibs. There truly is nothing like a cub on floats!
Dbl,

Nice! Do you fly for pleasure, or commercially? I haven't seen many Cubs on amphibs. Aren't they a bit on the heavy side for a Cub? I grew up on Lake of the Woods in northern MN. My dad went on floats every summer for most of his 34 years as a game warden/bush pilot. He never had amphibs, though. He taught me how to do water takeoffs & landings in his Cessna 180 back when I was in high-school. Was a lot of fun. There were three flying services operating off the river back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. About every half-hour from dawn to dusk during the summer, the sound of Continental O-470 & O-540 engines mixed with the sound of prop-tips going supersonic filled the air. I got to the point where I could tell which plane was taking off & which pilot was flying just by the engine sound. I really miss those sounds...

Back to the CC on floats - using ailerons with rudder while taxiing makes sense. I was wondering about the handling in crosswinds, given the narrow track. If you keep the stick into the wind, is there enough aileron authority to keep the windward wing down in a 5 MPH crosswind? I hadn't thought about the lack of spray rails until you mentioned it. I bet the water went everywhere! Let us know what you come up with. I've been flying RC for 28 years, but the CC is my first plane with floats. Now I just need to find some water around here!

Joel
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Old May 13, 2012, 01:03 AM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,045 Posts
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Originally Posted by M3_matt View Post
Ok! Picked mine up this morning and no problems with my servos, etc. I did turn dwn the travel adj to 85 on air, elev, and running my flaps at 75% dwn travel.
I did have to tweak the rudder just a little by bending the wire to ctr it up. I also mounted my Trexler #6 tundra tires They are 2 1/2 inches in dia. I know they are huge, but man, what fun flying this thing with those monsters on it. It moved my c.g.a little fwd it seems, but just req a few clicks of up elev trim. It lands with a nice little bounce, it's hilarious really!!! I basically just rigged them on with a little piece of plastic tubing that we used to use with are FM antenna wires. I CA'd them to the wire gear, then used a tie wrap as a collar since I couldn''t find any of my smaller Dubro collar's. I works like a charm!! Let me know what you think. I think it looks the part of a bush Carbon SS Cub.
I think you may be able to use them as floats also!



Pete
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Old May 13, 2012, 03:07 AM
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Alpha_Geist's Avatar
United States, CA, Elk Grove
Joined Dec 2011
347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
The gws props fit the same as the stock prop. But if you have a broken prop adapter, look up a forum member ICU he has unbreakable ones that everybody should have.
Thank you very much bobly!
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Old May 13, 2012, 04:13 AM
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Belgium
Joined Aug 2008
44 Posts
Hello there,

I need some advice: which 4-ch plane to fly first.
I rolled in to this hobby when the pkz vapor came out. After that I quickly got an ember 2, and a year later a pkz J-3 cub.
I love those three planes which I have no problem to fly (normal: all 3ch beginner planes).
After that I wanted to go 4ch and I bought a pkz um P-51 which was a bad idea: I tried to fly it twice but failed: after hand launching it struck the ground after less than 10 meter. Itís virtually undamaged but sits on a shelf since then. If I had done some more thorough reading in this forums here I could have predicted thisÖ
Reading about the pkz T28-D, which could serve as an aileron trainer, I got one. But, with its 875grams I know that itís not likely to be so crash-resistant than my other ultra micro stuff so thatís why I never tried to fly itÖ I know, itís silly, planes arenít supposed to sit on a shelve for over two years without getting airborne at least once ;-(
Then e-flite announced the UMX Carbon Cub. I thought that since my J-3 cub was my favorite plane this would be my ideal next step so I ordered one in January. It arrived on Friday but since January I read a lot here so now Iím wondering which plane I should try to master first: the T28-D or the UMX CCÖ
Or should I get something else like the UM T-28 to try to master 4ch? I also had a look at the apprentice and they have it in stock at my hobby shop, it's epensive though.
Meanwhile Iím training with Clearview and although I find the UM J-3 cub flies just like the real one Iím not very confident that this will be true for the other planes. Could be me but in Clearview I need 20% of up-elevator to enable the T28 to fly level. Couldn't find an umx CC clearview model. Anyway, hitting the ground on a sim doesnít feel like hitting the ground in real life.
So to summarize her's what I have:
1. Pkz Vapor: no problem at all.
2. Pkz Ember 2: no problem at all.
3. Pkz um J-3 Cub: too fast in the beginning, now itís my favorite.
4. Pkz um P-51: failed to fly on two occasions, never tried again.
5. Pkz T28-D: never triedÖ
6. E-flite umx CC: never triedÖ
Which plane should I try to master first? I would have ordered them like this: 6, 5, 4 but now I think that maybe the T28-D will be easier than the umx CC.
Or should I get something in between like a pkz um T-28?
Important to know is that the things that I like about the J-3 Cub are just the things that the umx CC is missing: his self-righting characteristics which always help to get me out of troubleÖ
Does anyone know if the T28-D will self-right itself when itís banked for example?
Thanks for helping!
Tom.
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Old May 13, 2012, 06:19 AM
Make the best of all you have
beetyii's Avatar
Essen/Germany
Joined Dec 2006
569 Posts
You don't need any further aircraft !

You need practice, practice, practice, and a buddy standing next to you that will give you some good advice to adjust your planes and what to do when you are in the air.

Take your T-28 and go flying for some practice, practice, practice ...


Rolf
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:01 AM
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North West UK
Joined Nov 2010
349 Posts
Tom, I would be inclined to get hold of a UM T28. I went through a similar pattern to yourself when returning to RC after a good few years break. The UM J3 Cub was the first to get me back into it. Then a Champ followed by the UM T28. The T28 is very forgiving and not too fast. I have flown it inside in a hall though much prefer outside on a calm day. I found I quickly got the confidence back flying the Trojan to start throwing my bigger models around. I did buy the Carbon Cub and have flown it quite a bit now. very pleased with it. But it is definitely no UM J3 Cub type plane or even as easy to fly as the UM T28.

The UM T28 has dihedral and does self right itself to a degree as I believe its bigger brother has.
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Bobly,

Bummer! At least you got her patched up. That is the primary reason I don't use dual rates. I just dial up some expo instead, so that maximum control authority is always available, if needed. Back when dual-rates first came out, I watched a pilot lose a $2k+ plane because he forgot to switch rates. I told myself right then that I would not be using a rate switch when I upgraded from my old 4-chan AM rig. So, I bought a rig with expo instead - which was also a new thing at the the time. Given that all passenger cars & trucks have exponential steering, and given that the control geometry on many full-scale planes provides what is essentially mechanical expo - using expo on my RC vehicles seemed to be a natural choice.

No, I'm not landing the way you do. I'm still landing the way I always have since I learned to fly RC. I'm just carrying a bit more power with the flaps extended, and I'm keeping a bit of power on during the rollout to keep the tail flying as the plane slows down, so I can do scale-looking two-wheel landings without ground-looping. I still manage speed with elevator & manage descent-rate with throttle - as I suggested you should do. Full-scale pilots land this way. Advanced RC pilots land this way. Pro RC pilots land this way. Every large & giant-scale pilot I have ever flown with in 28 years of flying RC lands this way.

If you want to advance your flying skills to the point where you are able to put nearly any plane down where you want it to be, are able to land in tight spots, and are able to deal with steep approaches - you need to work on unlearning your bad landing habits & start practicing the landing technique I suggested. Only then will you be truly in control of your landings. This is simply how it is.

Joel
Joel, I understand the dual rate thing, but I really like to have dual rates on my Carbon Z so I can use it as a purely aerobatic plane on low rates and can throw the sticks hard to max without thinking if I want. Seems more relaxing for me than leaving them on high and having to remember that I can't throw them all the way hard when flying that way, but realize it's sort of what you get used to. Your second paragraph on the description of landing technique sounds exactly like I land my rc planes. The thing I thought I do different were where you mention the flair right before touchdown. That is the part I don't do. I always plan to put them down on the mains and then let the tail settle (or the nose wheel as the case may be) after I'm on the ground. This is the one thing I'm finding simple with the cc. Never played much with flaps, but this thing will fly slow straight and stable with full flaps and let me come down on the mains without a bounce. Also find it neat to fly full circuits around the field a couple of feet off the ground with almost no power and full flaps. I do still want to get out in a breeze and give the stabilization a test. I have flaps and spoilerons set up on my Carbon z, but find absolutely no need for them. I also have this set up on my mini funtanax and really need to play with them on it - it is tougher to land and is so touchy about up elev at landing that a tad too much wants to overreact and put the nose back up in the air and either flair and stall or fly again. Got to get the speed just right, so it's either more practice or be able to manage the speed a bit better or learn to do it with the flapperons or spoilerons.
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:40 AM
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jul 2011
301 Posts
The PK T-28 is widely considered to be one of the best aileron trainers out there, so I would highly recommend using that first. I have both the full-size and the UM version and both are uniformly excellent aircraft. You can learn most of the basic skills you need with those aircraft, and then move on to the CC.

The CC is a fairly challenging plane to fly. Once you get used to it, it's not so bad, but you definitely want to get lots of stick time with an aileron trainer before trying the CC. If you have the room to fly the full-size T-28, that plane is quite fun to fly. The UM T-28 is also a great plane, but my experience is that you only want to fly it on days with very little wind. Either are good planes, it just depends on how easy it is for you to find a sufficiently large space.

Don't worry about what plane is the most crash-proof. Your goal is to fly, not to crash. You can get parts for both T-28s at a decently-sized local hobby store if you need them, but the point of those aircraft is that they're more forgiving for a beginner and less likely to crash in the first place.

Once you've got the T-28 down and have a proper landing and turning technique down pat, than the CC is a step up, but it's very doable.
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:53 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbl View Post
Joel, as long as you use a bit of power and use the ailerons as well as the rudder it turns very nice on the water even with 5-10mph of wind. Won't turn worth a darn if you only use the rudder with a little wind. I have some video of it on the water today but can't seem to embed it from my own website. That shows the turning capability with a little wind.

It gets off the water as fast as it jumps off the ground. Two downsides...it throws water everywhere!!! I mean the whole darn plane gets wet! Good thing the servo covers are on the wing or you would be in trouble! I did have one aileron servo get wet and act up. Had to stop and get it home and dry it out to get it working again.

I think I am going to design spray rails along the side. The other downside is the narrowness of the floats. If they where one float wider it would make a world of difference. Get it in a bit of a crosswind and you had better be using real crosswind techniques or it flips on its side very fast... don't ask how I know that.

All in all it is a blast on water. I flew three batteries tonight again until about 1/2 hours after sunset and looking at it you would swear you where looking at a full-scale plane flying off into the sunset.

This happens to be one of the real ones I fly off of amphibs. There truly is nothing like a cub on floats!
How did you find installing the floats on the Carbon Cub? I just started to assemble the floats, and immediately one of the four supplied screws to hold the wires in the plastic blocks stripped out the head. I'm surprised they use such soft screws. Did you have problems with this? Thanks.

Gordon
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:56 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,430 Posts
A second question. Has anyone set up the CC with a DX7 transmitter for flaps yet? I've never done flaps on a plane before. I'm trying to do what the DX7 manual says to do, but no success mixing in some down elevator yet to coincide with the flaps.

Gordon
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:58 AM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Oct 2010
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I actually broke the heads off for two of the screws. Not impressed, however it is no big deal as I just glued the wires into the plastic holders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
How did you find installing the floats on the Carbon Cub? I just started to assemble the floats, and immediately one of the four supplied screws to hold the wires in the plastic blocks stripped out the head. I'm surprised they use such soft screws. Did you have problems with this? Thanks.

Gordon
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:11 AM
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Fairfield County, Connecticut
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson View Post
How did you find installing the floats on the Carbon Cub? I just started to assemble the floats, and immediately one of the four supplied screws to hold the wires in the plastic blocks stripped out the head. I'm surprised they use such soft screws. Did you have problems with this? Thanks.

Gordon
I too stripped a screw head, fortunately I was able to get it out with a pair of pliers, good thing they include an extra screw.
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:16 AM
...into the mists of time...
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by texbird View Post
Wow as of to-nite the survey has about 50% of voters with server problems!

Now i realize that this is in no way a random sample and that people with problems have a higher response rate than satisfied folks.

But this is really making me rethink getting this plane...

Seems to me HH should at least talk about this problem here one way or another? I mean what return rate they are seeing and if there IS a problem how they are addressing it?

and if you haven't voted maybe do so ?
When I got my CC, the first thing the guy at my LHS said to do was dial back the throws on m TX to 80% before I even bind the plane. That's what I did and I haven't had any problems at all. I wonder how many people with failed servos were running full 100% throws. I also have the micro F27Q Stryker and the rudder servos used to bind up at 100% too. After I cut back the throws, I never had any problems with it either.

I flew the CC almost exclusively yesterday and lost track of how many flights I did. I just kept charging batts and flying. I love this little bird! It's not as aerobatic as I'd like though. May have to get the Beast.
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