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Old Feb 16, 2012, 03:42 AM
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Simon,
A little knowledge, etc., etc. Racing planes were so individual that it's almost impossible to come up with a definative plan. I recall mention of Bleriot sawing the wingtips off a plane during a racing session to make it faster. Needless to say, he wasn't going to be flying the thing.
I'm convinced this is a G/H based machine, so the straight wing is fine. Of course, if you desperately want to build the tapered wing version I'm quite happy to draw up a fresh plan for it - at whatever size you want.

As regards the Rex, I know I've seen a three view and photo of it that confirms what we have on the plan, it's just stored in that dreaded 'safe place'.

Pete
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 03:50 AM
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I'm good to go with the 'H' as you have it drawn. The later photos at least prove this configuration was raced. As long as you are happy I will press on.

Simon
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 03:04 AM
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Spent a few hours covering. Litespan and tissue.
The tissue trim seems to have worked well on the wing but I'm not 100% happy with the tail surfaces.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:59 AM
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Managed to cover the second half of the tail plane and the other wing of the Morane.

Found the wing tips quite a challenge to cover with their marked taper and steep angle of the leading edge to tip. Managed but with a small wrinkle on each wing. On the plus side managed to induce a bit of washout during the shrinking stage.

Tried a bit of touch up to the edging of the tail surfaces with Tamiya Acrylic and brush. Better than it was but far from perfect. All in all I don't think the trim is going to very durable. Am loathe to try sealing it as I'm sure the tissue will bleed colour.

My order from Hobbyking is at last in transit. We live in a pretty strange world when it is "cheaper" to send the parcel from Singapore to Zurich Switzerland and then back out to Australia. Singapore to Perth is a 5 or 6 hour direct flight!

The kits from Charlie are also on route.

Not a great deal more I can do until the packages arrive. Tail surfaces for the Rex to complete and cover and the prospect of two sets of spoked wheels. Will post more as progress is made.

Simon
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 02:59 AM
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Simon,
That looks good to me mate. If it looks acceptable this close it should look fine on the finished model shots.
Was there any particular reason you opted for tissue trim? It looked good on the DVIII but those narrow strips were always likely to be a pain to seal around the edges.
I take it, since you're covering as you go, there won't be any bare bones shots? It isn't a problem, so don't worry about it. Just enquiring.

Pete
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 03:21 AM
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Pete,

Sorry there won't be any bare bones shots as such. I see these as quick builds (hopefully) getting them off your list ASAP. The MS Racer is indicated on the plan as 2005 and the Rex 2007! Quite long enough as I think you will agree. I view these builds as a bit of light relief whilst I await your updating of the Antionette plan. Although I wouldn't mind a crack a a Peter Rake virgin - something that hasn't been built before! The Sopwith Scooter at about 60" span of the 1/6th Tiger Moth we were discussing last year would get me very interested!

As regard the tissue trim. No other reason than it is what I had available. It is a case of balancing desires against disposable income! I don't know that litespan would have been any easier to handle in 2mm strips for the rib tapes though.

Have read your account of the Type G test flights with some trepidation! Do you have suggested control throws? 1/4 inch each way for both rudder and elevator seem reasonable?

Really the test flight of the MS might not be that far away given that it's just the fuselage to build. I can build the rear section at this time and work from there.

Simon
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Simon,
I'm still undecided about the cause of the problems with the MS G trimming flights. The way the model was behaving altered so dramatically, and so suddenly that I can't help feeling it may not have been the model at fault at all. The problem never reappeared, which adds to the suspicion that it may just have been some kind of interference. Remember, even when flying really nicely, it would suddenly twitch in a most disconcerting manner. That twitch was precisely what had preceeded each spin. I had a Fokker EIII spin in exactly the same way after a couple of twitches. One minute it was flying very smoothly, then you could hear the motor note change and see the elevator slam to full up. Others were reporting trouble spots at the time too. It was investigated by some authority or other, who claimed there was no problem, but the problem never seemed to be there after that. Coincidental that.
When you also take into account that I've flown various size Pfalz E1 models (virtually the same plane) without even a hint of bad behaviour it really makes you wonder about the problems with the type G.
So, I wouldn't let it worry you too much. Set it up on expo, so that you still have the option of greater throws if you need them. I doubt that you will on elevator, but you may need a bit more rudder throw than that. Using expo will mean you only have it if you need it.

Pete
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:19 PM
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Can't believe a week has passed since my last post. Awaiting the arrival of the kits from Charlie i decided to push on with the rear fuselage section of the MS. This is built from 3/32 strip - two sides directly over the plan. The main longerons are specified as hard balsa or bass. I substituted spruce for the bass and did not pre bend them. The bottom longeron has a defined angular change just prior to joining the forward fuselage box. To achieve this I cracked the longeron at the specified point and reglued. This isn't detailed on the plan.

With this done the kits arrived!

You've really got to love this laser cutting. Everything is so clean and repeatable. I'm sure I'm speaking to the converted but if you haven't given one of Charlie's kits a try you really should.
I couldn't resist immediately framing up the wings for the Rex racer. Ribs just slotted over the spar - full depth every time, no fettling required. Leading edges of the ribs all in line for a nice and straight LE. You get the idea. Not counting the LE strip the only pieces needing to be cut are the mounting blocks for the rigging and the R1-R2 sheeting.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 09:40 PM
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The forward fuselage section is a simple box with only a couple of full formers. A sub former assembly is used to brace the wing spars and set the dihedral angle. Because the wing incidence pegs are at this same angle you need to angle the holes in the fuselage sides and the localized reinforcement to match. It does seem a shame to attack the precise laser cut parts with a file but needs must. Bracing the fuselage bottom are the undercarriage mounting blocks U1 and U2. I found these to be marginally short and used some triangular stock for support in the corners.

The forward fuselage is then infilled with 1/16" except for the extreme forward top section which is filled in with block. Space is also left in the fuselage bottom for the access hatch. I had some beautifully soft 1/8 sheet as part of the MS kit and elected to laminate the forward block infill with this. Bad idea - had a trying time with the glue lines (Superphatic) at the sanding stage. A little bit of thin CA as a hardening agent and some filler and the result is acceptable.

Note as drawn there is no provision for a cockpit opening but looking at Peter's similar model with a simple cockpit surround and pilot bust the effect is still convincing.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:11 PM
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For some strange reason - impatience probably I now glued my two rear fuselage sides (not themselves joined as a unit) to the forward fuselage section. Not best practice!

I've had a hard time getting the rear fuselage completed anything like square. Not only was this not the way to do it but I do wonder how much the strip quality contributes. My 3/32 spruce strip is variable in both dimension and springiness (gosh spell check allowed that!), along the length of a single piece let alone different pieces. The stresses this produces must contribute - at least that's what I'm telling myself!! Still I think we are just about good to go. Hopefully careful shrinking when covering might allow a few tweaks.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:26 PM
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The cowl has also been roughed out. Got some filler to add before final sanding and finishing.

That brings you up to date Pete
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 05:43 PM
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Simon,
Looks good mate.
I'm not happy with that lower longeron, so I'll change that. Bear in mind this was one of my first CAD drawn designs and I was still learning. It's easy enough to get rid of that short straight section - now I know how.

On the subject of the short UC parts, how short are they? They appear to be within 0.001" on my drawing, so it might just be cutting losses. However, the same should hold true for the remaining fuselage parts, thereby negating the issue.

Swallow plan is about halfway there, if it still appeals.

Pete
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Peter the undercarriage parts were approximately 1 mm short compared to F1. Nothing too troubling. I think a bit of extra support in the corners is a good idea though just to increase the gluing area for these parts. Now that I know you will be altering the bottom longerons I will add a small gussett in this area to brace the induced weak point.

Nearly ready to cover the fuse - if only my Hobbyking order would arrive!

Do you consider the Swallow the same as the Scooter, Wikipedia suggests that the Swallow had a somewhat larger wing. Either way I am interested in a new design but I quite like the civilian scheme offered by the Scooter. I did suggest I would take the Antionette next and wouldn't want to commit to both - which one do you want first?

Simon
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:11 PM
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USA, UT, Midvale
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Just finished my MS racer except ffor shrinking the cover and adding washout. I used balsa for the tail and still had to shim the motor forward to get the specified c.g. I hate to add weight that isn't functional. I ordered a 300 motor from Hobby Partz that weighs 29g, 1050kv (the add says 1300) but I think it will work better with the lower kv. Now if you would quit sending the storms from the northwest, maybe I can get one of the more experienced pilots to prefight and maiden it while I get some video and pictures.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 01:22 AM
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Simon,
Antionette please, I just thought I'd let you know the Swallow would be there if needed.

That's just typical, I draw a little Scooter and everyone finishes it as a Swallow. Now I'm drawing a Swallow, you want a Scooter. However, since you've quoted Wikipedia, they state that it was the Swallow that was sold to Hawker with the G-EACZ registration - the same as the one I've seen in the civilian scheme.

Pete
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