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Old Jan 31, 2012, 03:26 AM
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Going to the races - Peter Rakes MS and Rex racer prototypes.

Having hopefully reached a successful conclusion to Peter's DVIII where he feels he has something appropriate to submit for publication I've volunteered to take a couple of his unproven designs on for prototyping. Namely the Rex and Morane Saulnier Racers.

These are both small ?IPS? size with the recommended motor being the Esskay 300XT.

For once Hobbyking had everything I wanted in stock so I've placed an order for the following:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6547
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11429
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9745
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=20388

Hopefully this will take care of the hardware side of things. I plan on building these in tandem in this singular thread. The plans have been printed by the local Snap printing - $22.60 for the four sheets, not too bad. An e-mail has been sent to Charlie at Manzano Laser regarding the possibility of laser cut parts so things are moving along already.

Now a plea for help - my initial web searches are not finding anything of value with respect to documentation on these planes. Anything any of you good people have to share would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance - will post with an update soon.

Simon
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 04:57 AM
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Having looked more closely here on RCGroups it seems both these models have already been subject to build threads. Neither however have got as far as having been flown apparently. Surely that can't be true - c'mon guys don't hold back! Inquiring minds want to know!!

If that is indeed the case will have to see if I can't address that!

MS Saulnier Build thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1546787

Rex racer build thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1005341

Have at least managed to glean this from the MS thread - it would appear however to be the first page only of a two or multiple page article. Still it's at least nice to have one picture.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:11 AM
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Simon,
Yes mate, more than satisfied with the DVIII material thanks. I'm looking forward to these two finally getting finished.

I've passed the files on to Charlie but you might want to start doing wire bending and wheel making (the spoked variety) while he organises proper cut files, etc.

Whilst the motor should be fine in the MS (albeit slightly overkill unless you want unlimited vertical) but it's lack of a shaft gives rise to some concern about getting it into the Rex.
Also, you might struggle to get that pack far enough forward, especially in the Rex. I had something about half that capacity in mind when I drew them up.

I got the Rex drawing from the Hannan book about Gordon Bennett racers, there's also a not great photo, but that has been tidied away to a 'safe place'. Now if I could only discover where that place was.....

Pete
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:00 PM
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No worries Pete - I already have suitable packs in that size range so I will have plenty of options there. As for the motor if need be I will either re motor or swap out the shaft for a longer one and use a conventional clamp type prop holder.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 11:24 PM
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Been relatively busy at work the last few weeks. However I've found a little time to make a start. I thought Pete might appreciate an update to, so he knows things are ticking along.

Hobbyking are really dragging their feet with my order. Despite all being in stock - nothing dispatched as yet.

If I've read the plan correctly. R1 and R2 are the same save for the incidence pegs. R3 and R4 are similarly the same except for a different thickness. Therefore only 2 templates are required though R1 through R4 are all drawn on the plan.

The pictures should show the rest.
More soon

Simon
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Just so everyone else knows, Simon is talking about the ribs for the Morane Saulnier. As he says, they are all basically the same rib except for thickness, with R1 and R2 being adjusted for height to allow the root bay to be sheeted and R1 having locating dowel holes.
When it comes to cutting the Rex ribs, each one is different, 10 individual ribs per wing panel. You see mate, there was a reason you should have gone the laser cut route. Or asked for the parts pdf. Probably my fault, I assumed you would go laser cut, so didn't send the parts sheets. Just shout if you'd like them.

Just checking what I have, I spotted an error on the fuselage plan to the MS. F2A isn't deep enough to reach the spar slot. It's obviously come up before, because the parts file has already been altered to show the correct parts.

Pete
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 02:16 PM
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Nice work so far Simon!
I look forward to following your build, if it's anything like your DVIII then they will turn out great
-Reuben
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Thank you Ben. Nice to have you join me for these two. We can only hope they will turn out OK. I don't think I've built a plane this lightweight since the Veron Tiger Moth as a young teen!

Peter - I think I'll be building these completely from the plan. No fault of Charlie's but I won't be paying 3/4 the value of the basic kits in postage! That makes no sense to me.

I've been pushing on as and when time permits - photos will show progress since last post.

Simon.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 04:25 AM
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Not a lot to add today but have managed the bulk of the Morane's horizontal tail. These comprise two all moving paddles linked by the joiner. As per my usual method this has been framed out as one unit. The leading and trailing edges are rounded at this stage. Also the corners I have access too have been shaped. With the carbon joiner glued in ((drying as I type this) taking care not to glue the brass hinge tube) the centre portions of the leading and trailing edges will be removed and the final corners shaped. Hopefully this will mean the tail is true rather than trying to glue the two halves to the joiner.

A big public "thank you" to Charlie and Vicki for helping me out with a set of laser cut parts at reduced cost. Please support Manzano Laser where possible guys.

Simon
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 05:11 AM
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looking fantastic mate, that is some tidy work with all the laminating!

Craig
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Thanks Craig. It's nice when the shapes come off the forms and you get to appreciate the molded curves. I think in future I will add a few extra laminates at the corners and sand them back later. As is the wood compresses quite a lot around the sharp bends and is both quite noticeable and unsettling!

I finished the horizontal tailplane for the MS as can be seen below and then ran into a MAJOR problem....
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 09:11 PM
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They say information is a good thing and you can never have too much! Well after perusing the threads here there was a link to http://flyingmachines.ru/ (found in the discussion of the Handley Page Type E or F. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1594582)

So far so good. Lovely resource and appears very comprehensive. Lets do a search for the MS racer. Initially found the picture already posted as part of the Flight article (post 2). Great, but then found a couple more followed by a three view clearly labelled as the MS racer. AAAAAAArrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!

As shown below it may be that the horizontal tail, rudder and wing planform - components already built are incorrect. Similarly Charlie is sending me a parts set produced from the current incarnation of the plan.

Whilst I'm not in a position to prove or disprove the authenticity of this information, taken at face value, it would appear I'm building a totally different plane at this moment in time.

Help Peter - how do you wish to proceed from here?

Simon -
going with trepidation to search for the Rex racer
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 10:54 PM
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I'm listening to 'The Race' by Clive Cussler, which is about a turn of the century era cross-country plane race. I can imagine that pics above are right out of the book.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:23 AM
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And this picture for the Type G - two seater monoplane.

Other info:
Type Garros: In 1912 the firm built a small monoplane for Roland Garros, who flew it from Tunis to Sicily, and then in stages to Rome. A similar but slightly larger machine followed it, also for Garros, and fitted with floats for his Monaco attempt in 1913. Later in 1913 Morane-Saulnier built 2 more monoplanes for Garros, and in one of them he flew from St Raphael in France to Bizerte in Africa. Work on these monoplanes culminated in the Types G (2-seater), and H (single-seater).

Type G: This straightforward 2-seat monoplane set the standard for many of the following M-S designs. The wing was untapered, and the tips raked forward. The undercarriage was of simple V-design with a V-brace to the center of the axle. The engine was half-covered in a horse-shoe-shaped cowl. An Ecole version with a 3-cylinder Anzani had skids and a support structure under the propeller. Several 3-float seaplane versions were built and raced. There were 2 versions of the basic G - the GA and the GB:

(GA: span: 14 m; speed: 12-124 kmh; 60 hp Gnome, 60 hp Le Rhone)
(GB: span: 16 m; 60 hp and 80 hp Gnome, 80 hp Le Rhone; speed: 123-125 kmh)

Type H: a widely-used single-seater resembling the Type G: perhaps it preceded it. Grahame-White license-built them in England. Several 3-float versions were built as well.

Another M-S monoplane appeared in 1912, with the trapezoidal-tapered wings of the much later Moranes and Nieuports.)

Type O: Similar to the Type H, it was built for the Monaco rally; flown by Roland Garros in the London-Paris race, it featured a reflex airfoil section.
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Last edited by Modelholic; Feb 16, 2012 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Added info.
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