Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old May 24, 2012, 02:43 AM
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Joined Mar 2011
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received mine this morning with a very severe condition of the box.
The wing and stabilizer received in bent condition. just like the others, I have to remove the glue that attaches at one pushrood (rudder). EPO is very nice and supple, with a shiny surface, looks like a costly aircraft . equipped with a brushed ESC, 250 mAh battery and two pieces of real servo. This plane is very generous with the size of the wing 750 mm, and the PNP version. Location for the battery at the end of the nose of the aircraft, and still enough to be occupied by a 370mAh nano-tech, but not wide enough to 460Mah.

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Old May 24, 2012, 08:01 AM
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jan 2012
858 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaeyes View Post
received mine this morning with a very severe condition of the box.
The wing and stabilizer received in bent condition. just like the others, I have to remove the glue that attaches at one pushrood (rudder). EPO is very nice and supple, with a shiny surface, looks like a costly aircraft . equipped with a brushed ESC, 250 mAh battery and two pieces of real servo. This plane is very generous with the size of the wing 750 mm, and the PNP version. Location for the battery at the end of the nose of the aircraft, and still enough to be occupied by a 370mAh nano-tech, but not wide enough to 460Mah.

Sorry about your warpage. Seems everyone is getting the glued pushrod issue. HK really needs to do something about it. Btw...if you want a bigger lipo, check out the Gens Ace 2S 450mah. I have two and they fit in the nose just fine. Seeing at least 11+ minute flight times.
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Old May 24, 2012, 08:03 AM
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Jan 2012
858 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaeyes View Post
received mine this morning with a very severe condition of the box.
The wing and stabilizer received in bent condition. just like the others, I have to remove the glue that attaches at one pushrood (rudder). EPO is very nice and supple, with a shiny surface, looks like a costly aircraft . equipped with a brushed ESC, 250 mAh battery and two pieces of real servo. This plane is very generous with the size of the wing 750 mm, and the PNP version. Location for the battery at the end of the nose of the aircraft, and still enough to be occupied by a 370mAh nano-tech, but not wide enough to 460Mah.

Sorry about your warpage. Seems everyone is getting the glued pushrod issue. HK really needs to do something about it. Btw...if you want a bigger lipo, check out the Gens Ace 2S 450mah. I have two and they fit in the nose just fine. Seeing at least 11+ minute flight times. The lipos arent too much heavier than similar lipos in the same size class. They are only like $3.50 a piece, I think.
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Old May 24, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Arycon View Post
Sorry about your warpage. Seems everyone is getting the glued pushrod issue. HK really needs to do something about it. Btw...if you want a bigger lipo, check out the Gens Ace 2S 450mah. I have two and they fit in the nose just fine. Seeing at least 11+ minute flight times. The lipos arent too much heavier than similar lipos in the same size class. They are only like $3.50 a piece, I think.
Thanks for the suggestions for the battery. with the stock battery, looks very nose heavy.crashed on the first flight, the rudder is very slow to respond, I can not turn. I have not tried the lipo that I have. is still nose heavy if using lipo battery?
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Old May 24, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
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Suggestions:
Full power most of the time.
Small rudder movements - give it some rudder and wait or add ailerons.

Boiling water will put the foam back to it's original state.
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Old May 24, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Suggestions:
Full power most of the time.
Small rudder movements - give it some rudder and wait or add ailerons.

Boiling water will put the foam back to it's original state.
hmmm .... full power?yes, at 1/2 throttle it looks very nose heavy. right to use the full power to fly ....
oh so it really has a slow response.
I will try to full power in the "second maiden"
hot water,i'll try. thanks hoppy
I actually want to replace the standard servo with 2.4 g micro servo. but attached very strong, I am afraid of damaging the foam if it is forced off the servo.
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Old May 25, 2012, 06:03 AM
Rotary~myPast,Present &Future!
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Joined May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Lancer31 will hopefully answer that question for you.

I don't have enough time on the sticks to really comment on it.
No worries mate, I asked some plane flyers at the fun fly and found out that basically it is normal for a plane to continue in it's circular path after a rudder input and to straighten its path, it is required to feed it rudder in the opposite direction.. It goes to show how inexperienced I am with fixed wings.
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Old May 25, 2012, 01:12 PM
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full power all the time and lipo is the best,thanks hoppy.
btw, still need to check some parts, the plane always rotate in a clockwise direction. or maybe wings too heavy on one side?

I find the specifications for the brushed motor.
operating range 1.2~3.0 V normal 2.4 V
NO LOAD speed 8100rpm current 0.18 A
AT MAX EFFICIENCY speed 6800 rpm
current 0.83 A torque 20.0g.cm output 1.39 W
STALL --- torque 125.0g.cm current 4.22 A

http://www.tradezz.com/buy_2642382_motor-FK180PH.htm
or
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-b..._ID=ff_180phsh
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Last edited by alphaeyes; May 25, 2012 at 02:16 PM. Reason: add info about brushed motors
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:39 AM
Rotary~myPast,Present &Future!
SINGAPORE
Joined May 2006
2,223 Posts
My atom does have a tendency to circle clockwise too.. Need to trim my mid rudder to negative so that the fin yaws about 3-5 degrees left from rear view at neutral stick

Also the rudder end points needs to be trimmed, mine was 5degrees deflection to right and 12 degrees left for the rudder fin.

Rudder Dual rates at 80% so that full rudder stick don't make the plane nose-dive. Rudder Expo at zero, I don't need sluggish response since turning by rudder is not immediate, the plane needs time to react.
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Old May 26, 2012, 10:53 AM
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ah okay, thanks terencechan
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:30 PM
Since 1952
Harry D's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Oct 2004
1,247 Posts
Finally, a flyable day. Hereís an update on my brushless motor mod (post 119).

First problem: bad pulling to the right under power. My Atom always did this (and others have reported the same thing, here in this thread). But with the increased power available, it was much worse - and got more so with increasing throttle settings. Power off glide was straight ahead.

Simple, I say to myself. Just put in some side thrust. Wrong! I tried a LOT of side thrust - up to well over 5į, in BOTH directions, left and right (since it wasnít clear to me which way to go). Made NO difference at all. I donít pretend to understand whatís happening here, but it has to be something to do with the location of the motor (near the middle of everything).

Next step: check the wing for warps, properly this time. Well, as I now sort of expected, the left wing had a quite a bit of wash-in (trailing edge lower near the tip than at the root). That would account for the right turning tendency. And presumably it would get worse as airspeed increased (with higher throttle settings).

The right wing also had wash-in, but less than the left wing. This wash-in on both wings would probably account for much of the nasty tip-stalling I had always had with this model.

So, after a lot of fiddling around, hot water, twisting, and checking, I got both wings more-or-less de-warped. Incidentally, the decals seem to play a large part in setting and maintaining the shape of the wing (curvature, twist, etc). First time Iíve ever come across a case of decal stickers being a structural component of a model!

OK, try again. MUCH better. It now flies more-or-less straight ahead under all power settings.

And what a difference having more power makes! Iím not one of those guys who believes that a powered glider should be zoomed around under power the whole flight, like a sport model. But I do like to get to altitude quickly, so I can then start gliding and soaring from there.

And the Atom will now do that, instead of having to struggle and claw for every little bit of altitude like it did before. Just for interest, I used a recording altimeter on one flight. Results are shown on the graph below.

The Atom got as high as I wanted it (about 300 metres, where I could only just see what it was doing) in 50 seconds. Thatís equivalent to a climb rate of 350 m/min (1250 ft/minute).

And there was apparently a bit of light lift around, so I actually got to do a little thermaling and soaring for a few minutes until I had to come down quickly because of an approaching full-size aircraft.

Another thing I was pleasantly surprised to discover was that the receiver I was using, the HK micro Orange, had more than sufficient range to fly the model as far as I could comfortably see it. Iíve read reports of that receiver having limited range, but mine was rock solid at all times. I got up to 300 m altitude, and wasnít directly overhead, so the model was probably at least 400 m (over 1300 feet) away. More than enough for me, for this type and size of model.

So the new motor (and a bit of fixing and trimming) have made the Atom a whole new model, and one which I know is going to be a lot of fun once I get it finally dialed in. Iím still playing around with the CG position, and I intend to try a little wash-out in the wings to maybe cure the tip-stalling that is still there to some degree. I also want to try one of those 3-blade 5-inch diameter props that HK has. That should allow a lower RPM, which would cut down the prop noise.

Lots of fun.
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Old May 26, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Malaysia, Sabah, Kuala Penyu
Joined Aug 2011
717 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Finally, a flyable day. Hereís an update on my brushless motor mod (post 119).

First problem: bad pulling to the right under power. My Atom always did this (and others have reported the same thing, here in this thread). But with the increased power available, it was much worse - and got more so with increasing throttle settings. Power off glide was straight ahead.

Simple, I say to myself. Just put in some side thrust. Wrong! I tried a LOT of side thrust - up to well over 5į, in BOTH directions, left and right (since it wasnít clear to me which way to go). Made NO difference at all. I donít pretend to understand whatís happening here, but it has to be something to do with the location of the motor (near the middle of everything).

Next step: check the wing for warps, properly this time. Well, as I now sort of expected, the left wing had a quite a bit of wash-in (trailing edge lower near the tip than at the root). That would account for the right turning tendency. And presumably it would get worse as airspeed increased (with higher throttle settings).

The right wing also had wash-in, but less than the left wing. This wash-in on both wings would probably account for much of the nasty tip-stalling I had always had with this model.

So, after a lot of fiddling around, hot water, twisting, and checking, I got both wings more-or-less de-warped. Incidentally, the decals seem to play a large part in setting and maintaining the shape of the wing (curvature, twist, etc). First time Iíve ever come across a case of decal stickers being a structural component of a model!

OK, try again. MUCH better. It now flies more-or-less straight ahead under all power settings.

And what a difference having more power makes! Iím not one of those guys who believes that a powered glider should be zoomed around under power the whole flight, like a sport model. But I do like to get to altitude quickly, so I can then start gliding and soaring from there.

And the Atom will now do that, instead of having to struggle and claw for every little bit of altitude like it did before. Just for interest, I used a recording altimeter on one flight. Results are shown on the graph below.

The Atom got as high as I wanted it (about 300 metres, where I could only just see what it was doing) in 50 seconds. Thatís equivalent to a climb rate of 350 m/min (1250 ft/minute).

And there was apparently a bit of light lift around, so I actually got to do a little thermaling and soaring for a few minutes until I had to come down quickly because of an approaching full-size aircraft.

Another thing I was pleasantly surprised to discover was that the receiver I was using, the HK micro Orange, had more than sufficient range to fly the model as far as I could comfortably see it. Iíve read reports of that receiver having limited range, but mine was rock solid at all times. I got up to 300 m altitude, and wasnít directly overhead, so the model was probably at least 400 m (over 1300 feet) away. More than enough for me, for this type and size of model.

So the new motor (and a bit of fixing and trimming) have made the Atom a whole new model, and one which I know is going to be a lot of fun once I get it finally dialed in. Iím still playing around with the CG position, and I intend to try a little wash-out in the wings to maybe cure the tip-stalling that is still there to some degree. I also want to try one of those 3-blade 5-inch diameter props that HK has. That should allow a lower RPM, which would cut down the prop noise.

Lots of fun.
nice job there harry...btw what altimeter are you using?....is it this one...http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...product=22630?
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Old May 26, 2012, 06:32 PM
Since 1952
Harry D's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Oct 2004
1,247 Posts
Quote:
...btw what altimeter are you using?
Thanks, CPM.

I have that HK altimeter and it works OK, but the software leaves a lot to be desired and there are a few other things about it I don't particularly like.

The one I use most of the time is the RAM3, available here: http://www.soaringcircuits.com/. A bit more expensive but very nice.
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Old May 27, 2012, 08:34 PM
looking up down under
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Australia, NSW, Fairlight
Joined Feb 2008
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thanks for the info harry

i might have to get one of these too (but i really need to stop accumulating boxes)

just a thought : maybe buy a miniswift replacement folding propeller and mount the prop backwards so the blades fold back for better aerodynamics when it is not turning ?

what's your all up weight in this configuration so i can so some rough calculations for my canary idea ?

i intend to use the generic 18-11 2000 - because i have a spare

using the gws 5x3 in pusher config on my bonsai i have the following figures :

2s lipo - 3.08amp max, drawing 21.4w pushing a nominal 10.4m/s (using the anemometer as a crude gauge)
3s lipo - 5.2amp max, drawing 50w pushing 14.9m/s

not sure if 3s would be tempting fate wrt overheating in the canary, given my intentions

can anyone set me straight on a watts/oz number to allow for a reasonable climb out - i have no desire to go vertical, and lighter is better for my purposes as i intend to improve on the tail weight using a "new" boom

at risk of a thread hijack, feel free to post over here in the canary enclosure

i'd also add a +1 for the orangeRx r410 mini receiver - the bonsai stays well in command for a long way; but given a glider might go for more height, i can further recommend the orangeRx r610 but lose the case to halve the weight, and add a satellite if you feel anxious about range

hope that helps some people
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Old May 27, 2012, 09:37 PM
Since 1952
Harry D's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Oct 2004
1,247 Posts
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Originally Posted by scruffy1 View Post
what's your all up weight in this configuration so i can so some rough calculations for my canary idea ?
Scruffy, the total flying weight of my Atom (with T1811-2000 motor, GWS 5030 prop, Plush 6A ESC, micro Orange RX, and GensAce 3S450 lipo) is 5.8 oz (165g).

In static testing (Post #119), current draw was 3.9 amps, power 42 watts. No sign of motor overheating (these really are excellent little motors).

That setup gave me a climb rate of 350 m/min (Post # 146). So, FWIW, power loading was about 42/5.8 = 7 watts/oz (120 watts/lb). About what would be expected.

I only went to 3S because the prop size is limited to about 5" by the Atom's boom and pusher arrangement. A more conventional layout such as you are considering would no doubt be much better on 2S and an appropriately sized (larger) prop.
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