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Old Feb 24, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Vienna, Austria
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Why not use the green (or any other) LED as RPM output ? It should be possible to solder a wire to it, which can be connected directly to VBAR. And also it should be no problem to output clean RPM pulses to it. Requires minimal firmware changes and is quite cheap
And for those who cannot solder, an optical sensor would be possible.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
Why even bother with that when itís only going to satisfy 5% of the helicopter flyers.
Because it'll be many months before you're able to purchase the CC phase sensor once it had been designed on paper, prototype built, tested by pilots, mass produced, shipped to your regional distributor, shipped to your local hobby store for purchased by the end user.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:09 PM
A man with too many toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rceccleston View Post
Because it'll be many months before you're able to purchase the CC phase sensor once it had been designed on paper, prototype built, tested by pilots, mass produced, shipped to your regional distributor, shipped to your local hobby store for purchased by the end user.
Iíll just fly the new CC internal governor. I have it loaded and ready to try this weekend. If itís as good as they say maybe I will just give up on external governors.




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Old Feb 24, 2012, 07:06 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
Internal governor does not reach the performance of using external, period.
(i tested it)
Its not about min/max rpm in a tictoc as that you can get same.
Its about smoothness in the response, and you actually get 20% less peaks because a precompensating system always wins.
Mr. Mel, it would be really nice if we had something as definitive as "period" in engineering. Unfortunately, my experience as an embedded software engineer very familiar with motor control has been that everything is a compromise in engineering.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by barzaun View Post
Mr. Mel, it would be really nice if we had something as definitive as "period" in engineering. Unfortunately, my experience as an embedded software engineer very familiar with motor control has been that everything is a compromise in engineering.
The ESC governor can't do anything until it senses bogging or overspeeding, so it's always reacting. A reactive governor will never work as well as a good proactive governor like in the VBar, which can anticipate bogging or overspeeding my looking at blade pitch.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 12:46 AM
Electric Helis is my game
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Lidingo, Sweden
Joined Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barzaun View Post
Mr. Mel, it would be really nice if we had something as definitive as "period" in engineering. Unfortunately, my experience as an embedded software engineer very familiar with motor control has been that everything is a compromise in engineering.
Its possible to make a "perfect" governor in the esc, meaning it will hold rpm almost perfect, yet its crap to fly as the heli has more components which will suffer, namly the tail, too good Esc governor and tail starts to kick.

Thats why the proactive governor has it so much easier, it gains about 200ms (takes 170ms for a major rpm change), with that it give a whole new softness in the response, while holding RPM really good.

Peaks are less too, 20% less in same setup.

Drawback is that you get more overspeed than some others (kontronik) but its not that bad, and the benefit is worth it.

I flew the v4 internal governor as part of the testing i did.

Saw this today too,
http://helidaily.com/coming-soon-vor...om-spartan-rc/
New spartan FBL has electric governor as well.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
Unfortunately, the basic commutation sequence just doesn't work all that well with high inductance outrunners (which is 95% of the heli motors out there...) There are better options.

I'll talk with Richard about doing a simple mode (which uses the basic commutation sequence) for use with external govs. We'll work with Mr Mel and others to get it working.

Should only be a few weeks before we have a beta ready.

I'll start working on an RPM sensor that will work correctly as well...

Thanx!

Patrick
Bad news

"Basic mode" should be fine because many other esc works pretty good with this "basic mode" of commutation. No need to make something special!

Let me ask one question: It tooks over a year of development/testing to find out that vbar governor isn't working with the cc special commutation mode? Are you kidding?

I'm sorry but it's really hard to believe that you'll only need a few weeks after months of saying "testing is ongoing very well" to develop a new firmware (see quote below).

Hard for me to find a reason why i should wait longer on that feature, as you sad there might be better options.

I'm aware not everybody want to use vbar gov but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintstone View Post
I started a new thread to help stay on topic... This thread is for updates only...

We are testing the New Firmware and working with various Pro Pilots to get a solution that works very well with the V-Bar GOV and other External GOVs...

Yes, the Native GOV has also been improved to virtually eliminate the over and under speed that has been more evident in some setups...

I will post more info as it is available...


Thanks
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMel View Post
Its possible to make a "perfect" governor in the esc, meaning it will hold rpm almost perfect, yet its crap to fly as the heli has more components which will suffer, namly the tail, too good Esc governor and tail starts to kick.

Thats why the proactive governor has it so much easier, it gains about 200ms (takes 170ms for a major rpm change), with that it give a whole new softness in the response, while holding RPM really good.

Peaks are less too, 20% less in same setup.

Drawback is that you get more overspeed than some others (kontronik) but its not that bad, and the benefit is worth it.

I flew the v4 internal governor as part of the testing i did.

Saw this today too,
http://helidaily.com/coming-soon-vor...om-spartan-rc/
New spartan FBL has electric governor as well.
Thanks, Mr. Mel, for sharing your findings, that is, advantages as well as disadvantages. This sounds more like real engineering practice than those posts which only praise this or that.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
The ESC governor can't do anything until it senses bogging or overspeeding, so it's always reacting. A reactive governor will never work as well as a good proactive governor like in the VBar, which can anticipate bogging or overspeeding my looking at blade pitch.
Castle could modify the set rpm mode so that it could read v-curves on the throttle fromthe tx. Then it could make proactive throttle changes. It would be pretty easy to do, no external rpm sensor needed.

Anyone who has flown throttle curves with some cyclic to throttle mix knows how well it works (for a minute until the voltage changes on the battery).
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Excellent idea!
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Santa Clara. Ca
Joined Dec 2008
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There is also cyclic add which has separate dynamics compared to just collective. Maybe with a throttle mix. But I think the control loop is much more complicated then what having a pure throttle input could provide.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 04:46 AM
A man with too many toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet_dave View Post
Castle could modify the set rpm mode so that it could read v-curves on the throttle fromthe tx. Then it could make proactive throttle changes. It would be pretty easy to do, no external rpm sensor needed.

Anyone who has flown throttle curves with some cyclic to throttle mix knows how well it works (for a minute until the voltage changes on the battery).
I suggested that over a year ago but no one at CC seamed to be interested.

That would be so easy and I think it would dramatically improve the governor.


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Old Feb 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
D C
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United States, TX, Bryan
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Active Throttle Mode is what CY uses on his ATG governor to pass thru throttle curves and mixes. It works very well on Nitro models but I don't believe it's really needed on electric helis because they just don't load as much.

Don C
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 03:54 PM
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So, I was initially sort of disappointed when this new firmware was released as I had installed and wired a Hyperion phase sensor into my Vbar and thought I'd just pop in the new FW, tweak the settings a little and go out flying with a new governor (which I don't need at all as i mostly just hover around slowly ).

Anyways, what really caught my interest in this new firmware is the Castle Link Live, and thought I'd ask here before getting my hopes up to high.

If I understood this part correctly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle Creations
All: Full 'CastleLink Live' support. This is a special mode that will allow the ESC to share telemetry data through the receiver wire in real-time to external devices that support 'Castle Link Live'.
Does this mean that the connection between the ESC and RX can support two way communication?

Has Castle Creations worked with any specific radio manufacturers to develop this protocol, or is it up to anyone to make their receivers compatible?

For instance, could Hitec release a new firmware update for their Optima RX, which would allow me to use the data-port on the receiver to connect the ESC, and at the same time get voltage, rpm, current and other parameters sent back to my Aurora TX via the telemetry link?

.. because if so, this just got very interesting!
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 05:35 PM
A man with too many toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-Jet-Crash View Post
So, I was initially sort of disappointed when this new firmware was released as I had installed and wired a Hyperion phase sensor into my Vbar and thought I'd just pop in the new FW, tweak the settings a little and go out flying with a new governor (which I don't need at all as i mostly just hover around slowly ).

Anyways, what really caught my interest in this new firmware is the Castle Link Live, and thought I'd ask here before getting my hopes up to high.

If I understood this part correctly:


Does this mean that the connection between the ESC and RX can support two way communication?

Has Castle Creations worked with any specific radio manufacturers to develop this protocol, or is it up to anyone to make their receivers compatible?

For instance, could Hitec release a new firmware update for their Optima RX, which would allow me to use the data-port on the receiver to connect the ESC, and at the same time get voltage, rpm, current and other parameters sent back to my Aurora TX via the telemetry link?

.. because if so, this just got very interesting!
There was a post last year that indicated that CC was working with Futaba to make a 2-way S.Bus telemetry interface. I have heard that Futaba will be introducing many telemetry products and new radios over the next few years.

Patrick will have to answer the question of compatibility with different brands of telemetry systems.

It would be cool to look at your transmitter and have a headspeed graph displayed. The technology is going in that direction.

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