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Old Feb 23, 2012, 12:46 PM
Mis-guided heli guy
Jeff_edge540's Avatar
Austin, TX USA
Joined Mar 2007
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CC just announced a new firmware version which increases throttle response in some modes (like multi-copter mode). But it didn't specifically state it had support for rpm out and external govs.

http://www.castlecreations.com/downl...h-phoenix.html
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 12:46 PM
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OnTheSnap's Avatar
Santa Clara. Ca
Joined Dec 2008
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Patrick,
Can you please enable vBar support so we can use magnetic sensors until a better solution is released? This would be a big relief and finally stop the wait.

Thanks!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post

I think the Hyperion is one of sensors with issues on this release -- it's analog, and reports RPM at 3 times actual with our new commutation sequence.

Thanx!
Are you sure that the Hyperion is one of the sensors with issues, what's excatly the reason?
Why can "reports RPM at 3 times" not be handled by the v-bar Sensor Configuration Parameter?

For me an "additional" sensor board or what else is the showstopper for using CC with vbar governor. I'm a bit disappointed
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:01 PM
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Santa Clara. Ca
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Originally Posted by pitchfella View Post
Are you sure that the Hyperion is one of the sensors with issues, what's excatly the reason?
Why can "reports RPM at 3 times" not be handled by the v-bar Sensor Configuration Parameter?

For me an "additional" sensor board or what else is the showstopper for using CC with vbar governor. I'm a bit disappointed
As was stated earlier, the output is erratic. Not just 3x. Also mentioned was that no external sensor may be needed if Castle's integration idea with vBar pans out.

My hope - Let us use a magnetic sensor on the motor until a better solution comes out.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 03:21 PM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Hear is a phase sensor with multi pole inputs – will it work?
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/accessories/7.htm
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Supp...shless-rpm.pdf


The price is $14.99
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm


.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 03:25 PM
Electric Helis is my game
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Lidingo, Sweden
Joined Feb 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
No,
it does not work well even with previous version of Castle (its not exact enough for any governor, that's why I came up with Hyperion instead to start with)
And it suffers from same effect.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
The Hyperion sensor works very well with various ESC compared to the noisy and problematic signal produced by the EagleTree or rebranded Spektrum brushless sensor.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 05:47 PM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
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I saw on another forum that another firmware release that’s Hyperion compatible would be coming out in a few days – is that true?

There are certainly a large number of discussions and rumors about the new firmware going around to day. It’s really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff – LOL.



.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
I saw on another forum that another firmware release thatís Hyperion compatible would be coming out in a few days Ė is that true?

There are certainly a large number of discussions and rumors about the new firmware going around to day. Itís really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff Ė LOL.
http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=11
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 05:58 PM
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It's interesting how Castle Creations are following the mistakes and potential resolutions of cheaper controllers.

http://www.hobbywing.com/news_show.asp?id=175

Sep 21, 2011, Hobbywing released a new firmware named "V1.08_101106_U_A"for Platinum-120A-HV Pro ESC (Hardware version HW120_V2.0A, firmware version V1.08_101106_U) to solve the compatiblity issue with the Mikado V-Bar governor function.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Hobbywing released a new Platinum-120A-HV ESC in July 2011, its hardware version is HW120_V2.0A, and the firmware version is V1.08_101106_U. Compared with the old version, the new ESC has the following improvements:

1. Quicker response and better driving effect when the motor load has a sudden increment.

2. More powerful.

But soon we got some responses that the firmware had compatibility problem with V-Bar (Mikado) governor function, we did some tests immediately and got the following results:

1. When using the ESC (loaded with the firmware V1.08_101106_U) with some electronic RPM sensors (such as Hyperion EMeter II Phase Tachometer, this tachometer is connected to one phase of the brushless motor wires), the sensor outputs error RPM signal, which makes V-Bar system work abnormally.

2. When using traditional magneto-electrical tachometer, the V-Bar system still works well.

HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM?

After doing the above tests, Hobbywing immediately made a new firmware to solve the problem. This new firmware has already been tested by some pilots. It works well with electronic phase sensors.

NEWS UPDATE:

Hobbywing makes its own RPM sensor in Nov 2011, and this new product is sold as a standard accessary of Platinum-120A-HV, Platinum-70A-HV, FlyFun-100A-HV and FlyFun-80A-HV ESC. The Hobbywing RPM sensor is compatible with any firmware of the above ESC's, that means if you use Hobbywing RPM sensor, the above ESC's are always compitable with V-Bar governor function.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:09 PM
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Olathe,KS,USA
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I guess my question for all of you out there is:

1. Would you like a VBAR mode where the motor drive may not be as efficient, and may not hold lock as well as the internal governor mode? (We don't really want to make performance suffer to support the existing RPM sensors -- but will if there is a compelling reason...)

2. The new internal governor works very very well -- so it may work quite a bit better than a simple commutation VBAR mode.... is it worth bothering to do #1 (MrMel? What's your opinion??)

3. If we give a solution like #1, would an inexpensive (less than $10) external RPM sensor add-on to give both the correct RPM for a VBAR and still support the advanced commutation be an acceptable longer term solution?

Thanx!

Patrick
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Santa Clara. Ca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
I guess my question for all of you out there is:

1. Would you like a VBAR mode where the motor drive may not be as efficient, and may not hold lock as well as the internal governor mode? (We don't really want to make performance suffer to support the existing RPM sensors -- but will if there is a compelling reason...)

2. The new internal governor works very very well -- so it may work quite a bit better than a simple commutation VBAR mode.... is it worth bothering to do #1 (MrMel? What's your opinion??)

3. If we give a solution like #1, would an inexpensive (less than $10) external RPM sensor add-on to give both the correct RPM for a VBAR and still support the advanced commutation be an acceptable longer term solution?

Thanx!

Patrick
Hi Patrick,
The big secret sauce with the vbar governor is its pre-compensation. Meaning throttle is increased before the load change. This has a very positive impact on holding RPM, and reducing current peaks. No matter how good you make your ESC based governor, it's always playing catch up and will never be as good as a governor integrated with the flight input control loops.

So short term, I vote for option 1. Then as things evolve, we can get compatible RPM sensors and eventually migrate to the improve communtation capability.

In summary - Do option 1 now and quiet down the pack of heli wolves. And then move to option 3 when the new $10 sensor is ready.

Thanks!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
I guess my question for all of you out there is:

1. Would you like a VBAR mode where the motor drive may not be as efficient, and may not hold lock as well as the internal governor mode? (We don't really want to make performance suffer to support the existing RPM sensors -- but will if there is a compelling reason...)

2. The new internal governor works very very well -- so it may work quite a bit better than a simple commutation VBAR mode.... is it worth bothering to do #1 (MrMel? What's your opinion??)

3. If we give a solution like #1, would an inexpensive (less than $10) external RPM sensor add-on to give both the correct RPM for a VBAR and still support the advanced commutation be an acceptable longer term solution?

Thanx!

Patrick
I praise the concept of the final goal, however, in order to remain beneficial to the end user the features would be better implemented in stages.

As it stands, with the usable feature set, the end user appears to be no better off with their desired features not implemented.

Many pilots would greatly appreciate a firmware update to replace their HobbyWing ESC's for their original Castle ESC with comparable performance with the added benefit of telemetry and retaining their trusty Hyperion phase sensors.

Moving forward, Castle would be in the favourable position to offer an enhanced internal phase sensor solution with a complete software and hardware package. This package would have to be compatible with any generic flybarless system that has RPM input and throttle output i.e. The new Scorpion and HobbyWing ESC's with integrated or bundled phase sensors.
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 07:10 PM
A man with too many toys
United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
I guess my question for all of you out there is:

3. If we give a solution like #1, would an inexpensive (less than $10) external RPM sensor add-on to give both the correct RPM for a VBAR and still support the advanced commutation be an acceptable longer term solution?

Thanx!

Patrick
Number 3 would be my choice. I think that would be the best solution. Since I have a couple of helicopters that use the CC internal governor I canít stand and degradation. Hopefully the weather will be good enough for me to test the new internal governor over the weekend.

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Old Feb 23, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Joined Apr 2004
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#2. Not everyone flies VB. (Before you flame the post, I have a VB that I fly weekly, but I also fly other FBL units more.)
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