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Old Jan 30, 2012, 01:32 AM
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Crank vs. Wiggle drive?

From my understanding the crank drive is capable of sustained flight at varying altitudes while also adequately being able to maneuver while doing these things.

After reading a lot on Kjell's wiggle drive it seems to produce thrust very nicely but is it capable of performing maneuvers adequately and climb to altitude? I couldn't find these answers in all of the threads I visited on the subject.

Their were some interesting facts being said in the debate about the two different devices, I'm simply looking to see if the wiggle device is viable enough to be made into a fully functional ornithopter.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 02:45 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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If I was going to build a full size Ornithopter I will start with this combination.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
If I was going to build a full size Ornithopter I will start with this combination.
I think the main advantage of crank drive for full size Ornithopter is visible.
The loading of the spar of full size Ornithopter and model is different.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 03:39 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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The important difference between Crank drive and Wiggle drive is.
The Crank drive has an assymetric Flapping wing movement and can not produce activ wing twist without adding extra componenets. The lubrication of all pars is dificult.
The Wiggle Drive has a symetrical Fan-Flapping wing movement. It has les moving parts and the Worm gear box has perfect lubrikation. All power tranmiting parts are using ballbearing.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
The important difference between Crank drive and Wiggle drive is.
The Crank drive has an assymetric Flapping wing movement and can not produce activ wing twist without adding extra componenets. The lubrication of all pars is dificult.
The Wiggle Drive has a symetrical Fan-Flapping wing movement. It has les moving parts and the Worm gear box has perfect lubrikation. All power tranmiting parts are using ballbearing.
What is this "assymetric Flapping wing movement"?
Activ wing twist is not advantage.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 05:12 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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This is asymmetric Flapping movement.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
This is asymmetric Flapping movement.
This is Symmetric Flapping movement:
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 06:15 AM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Originally Posted by Velko Velkov View Post
This is Symmetric Flapping movement:
Vekov.
Can you explain how you are producing the symmetrical movement?
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by KJELL View Post
Vekov.
Can you explain how you are producing the symmetrical movement?
I can explain, but I think it is not very important symmetric, or asymetric is this movement, if the wing is adaptive, not active twisted.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Crank drive advantages:

- .................................................. ............................................
- You can change the angle of incidence and control the flight direction.
- .................................................. ............................................
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Last edited by Velko Velkov; Jan 31, 2012 at 02:17 AM.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Socalfusions View Post
From my understanding the crank drive is capable of sustained flight at varying altitudes while also adequately being able to maneuver while doing these things.

After reading a lot on Kjell's wiggle drive it seems to produce thrust very nicely but is it capable of performing maneuvers adequately and climb to altitude? I couldn't find these answers in all of the threads I visited on the subject.

Their were some interesting facts being said in the debate about the two different devices, I'm simply looking to see if the wiggle device is viable enough to be made into a fully functional ornithopter.
Kjell has been working on his wiggle drive for 40 years. So far it is just a novel way to produce flapping. He says crank drives produce asymetric flapping, (which made his toy boats run in circles), but he neglects to say that all birds, bugs and bats use asymetric flapping. There is not a "Kjell fan effect and wiggle drive" spec sheet available that shows the good and bad engineering numbers, only his dreams.
George
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 01:18 PM
Kjell Dahlberg
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Mallorca Spain
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Originally Posted by Plantoflap View Post
Kjell has been working on his wiggle drive for 40 years. So far it is just a novel way to produce flapping. He says crank drives produce asymetric flapping, (which made his toy boats run in circles), but he neglects to say that all birds, bugs and bats use asymetric flapping. There is not a "Kjell fan effect and wiggle drive" spec sheet available that shows the good and bad engineering numbers, only his dreams.
George
If you take a look to my http://www.youtube.com/user/wingdrive you can see many of my dreams working.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 02:08 PM
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If you take a look to my http://www.youtube.com/user/wingdrive you can see many of my dreams working.
Your standard answers= Look at my videos, You don't understand how it works, ignore conflicting evidence,change the subject.

You promote others to do your work at their expense.

One successful application of fanning is the Venus fly trap.
George
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 02:31 PM
Kjell Dahlberg
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George.
If you have been looking to my 53 videos I have in Youtube I think you can se that all are working models not computer animations and all was made by me.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 03:24 PM
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Doesn't active wing twist and the fan effect in your wiggle drive produce more thrust than what a crank drive can do with its symmetrical movements Kjell?

The thing I'm most interested in is if the wiggle drive can perform all of the basic necessities as a crank drive in terms of flying at altitude and turns.

Also why would Jarno Smeets choose a wiggle drive if it wasn't capable of performing just as good or better than a crank drive?

Thank you for your posts!
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Last edited by Socalfusions; Jan 30, 2012 at 03:33 PM.
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