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Old Jan 29, 2012, 07:23 PM
mcg
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Monoline question for Dyna-Jet racer drawings

On the CAD forum are some 3D CAD sketches of an antique Dyna-Jet racer called ShockWave.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=12

I did not draw the control system because I couldn't find any pictures of it. It was a monoline control unit called "Speed-Master." What I am trying to find is a monoline component that operates in lieu of a bellcrank in a U-control. I think it was a worm drive, but in order to draw it in CAD I have to have a photo or a lift from a plan.

If you could post an image like that, or let me know where to look for one, I would add this component to the CAD model. I ran the obvious google image searches, but no luck.

Thank you for your insights.

Michael
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Last edited by mcg; Jan 29, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 07:28 PM
"Unnecessary Necessity"
coriolan's Avatar
Canada, QC, Quebec City
Joined Sep 2006
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Stanzel mono-line

Here are a few pictures of the Stanzel mono-line set-up, this is the version for stunt/scale planes. The speed version as used by now is more robust and often build to specs as there is no commercial product anymore. It is basically just a worm screw drive controlled by twisting the cable, the advantage is less drag but also full control even with slack line. Try to get in touch with NASS for details on a current mono-line system:
http://www.clspeed.com/node/6
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 08:20 PM
I am 5' 8" the Taube is 7' 4"
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I would suggest contacting Joey Mathison, 200 MPH Man, at mathison205@aol.com Tell him I sent you.

I think Joey said his fastest Jet flight topped 206 MPH!

Clancy
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 08:54 PM
mcg
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Thank you for this help. Here is a close up of the plan. It shows a torque unit that is in some ways similar to the one in the stunter. There is a worm that appears to be driving a bellcrank.

I'd like to stick with the type of unit shown on the plan if possible. I know there must be much more modern ways to do this, but I am trying to keep the period feel of the drawing. My guess is late 50s or early 60s.

206 mph. Yikes.

Michael
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg View Post
Thank you for this help. Here is a close up of the plan. It shows a torque unit that is in some ways similar to the one in the stunter. There is a worm that appears to be driving a bellcrank.

I'd like to stick with the type of unit shown on the plan if possible. I know there must be much more modern ways to do this, but I am trying to keep the period feel of the drawing. My guess is late 50s or early 60s.

206 mph. Yikes.

Michael
The original Stanzel helix style torque units are not recommended these days as they are prone to failure and seizing at inappropriate moments!
If you go to the delphi C/L speed forum and ask there they'll have much more information.
Or try the Stunthangar Speed forum.
I get the idea you are just doing a drawing, or are you going to build and fly a model? If you are going to try and fly a model, the safest solution is not to use a Stanzel unit.
Cheers John
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:21 AM
mcg
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Thanks John. It is a CAD project. I am trying to make a 3D CAD model of the plane as faithfully as possible to the published plan. Some progress, thanks to this forum. I searched and found a few images of the Stanzel device, including his patent. He detailed two embodiments, one a spiral and one a helix. I notice he used a second line. It appears to anchor the aircraft and unload the device.

I will guess that the "Speed-Master" was a torque unit manufactured by Stanzel. He offered a control unit called the "Stunt-Master" so "Speed-Master" would be a logical tradename. You could speculate that the difference would be just the period of the helix: Fast response for stunting, slow response for speed runs.

The patent is later than I thought -- granted in 1977. Though it could be an improvement on an earlier device. Victor Stanzel had a portfolio of patents in this area, beginning in the early 1940s.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mcg View Post
Thanks John. It is a CAD project. I am trying to make a 3D CAD model of the plane as faithfully as possible to the published plan. Some progress, thanks to this forum. I searched and found a few images of the Stanzel device, including his patent. He detailed two embodiments, one a spiral and one a helix. I notice he used a second line. It appears to anchor the aircraft and unload the device.

I will guess that the "Speed-Master" was a torque unit manufactured by Stanzel. He offered a control unit called the "Stunt-Master" so "Speed-Master" would be a logical tradename. You could speculate that the difference would be just the period of the helix: Fast response for stunting, slow response for speed runs.

The patent is later than I thought -- granted in 1977. Though it could be an improvement on an earlier device. Victor Stanzel had a portfolio of patents in this area, beginning in the early 1940s.
Fig 5 is very interesting, it must be very early as that second line isn't used in any typical mono line versions, hence the name of course of Mono Line.
Stanzel also did a thing called "thumb it" which was a two line system, I have one of the actuators in my collection. I don't have a thumb it handle though.
The main difference between the Speed-Master and Stunt-Master was the length of the helix.
The Stunt one had more turns on the helix about 6 or 7 to give more control output range.
The speed one had fewer turns around 4 I think as the surface movement in speed models needs only small deflections.
I think the spiral type was a training unit, not 100% sure.
Tried to find my instructions for the units I have, but without luck. If I find them I'll post them here.
Cheers John
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:33 PM
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Duplicated message, please delete
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Last edited by raglafart; Jan 31, 2012 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Duplicated message
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 09:42 PM
mcg
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Now that I understand it was a Stanzel product I am having better luck finding references to it. Is this the Speed-Master type?

In the photo the bellcrank seems to be disengaged from the worm drive. The worm shows two stops at either end of its travel.

Thank you for your insights.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Here's a picture of my Stunt-Master and yes the one you have pictured is the Speed-Master.
They were available in different sizes according to the model weight, A, B and C sized units to reflect the different flying loads.
Hope these pictures will help you see how they go together and work.
Cheers John
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Old Feb 01, 2012, 10:30 AM
mcg
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Thank you, John!! These photos are exactly what I needed. I will post the CAD sketch as it develops. Michael
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
mcg
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Still pecking away at it. Here is a current sketch. One problem is the bent steel mount. The Shock Wave Jet plan appears to show a square mounting footprint, but this does not appear in any of the Speed-Master photos or ebay ads I have seen. Anyway, this is where it stands at the moment.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mcg View Post
Still pecking away at it. Here is a current sketch. One problem is the bent steel mount. The Shock Wave Jet plan appears to show a square mounting footprint, but this does not appear in any of the Speed-Master photos or ebay ads I have seen. Anyway, this is where it stands at the moment.
Hi MCG, very nice work! when you'll finish it could you publish here a STEP file? if you want I have several 3D models of various engines & CL planes

Luca
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 07:44 PM
mcg
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A year later, I noticed and picked up a Stanzel SpeedMaster on eBay. I measured it with a micrometer and drills and then drew it in Rhino3D. Result here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...87&postcount=1

Thanks again for your help on this project.
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Last edited by mcg; Feb 10, 2013 at 07:53 PM.
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 11:28 PM
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United States, OR, Albany
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There is anonther type of monoline unit called H&R. It is based on the twisting of music wire in both directions of nutral. I can post some data if interested... Most speed ships of today use this type unit because it is easy to build at home.

George
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