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Old Oct 10, 2003, 08:59 AM
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stickjockey's Avatar
Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2003
10 Posts
My dilema..what to build/fly for performance

Here is my dilema. I've invested heavily in giant scale aerobatic airplanes, and turbine jets. Very expensive, but a real thrill to fly. Unfortunately, my personality is such that I always like to learn new things, and can tire of something once I feel I have gotten where I wanted. While I will always keep a big plane or two, and a turbine in the hangar, I am looking for something that sparks an interest in me, like a kid in a new toy store.

I saw my first hotliner, or F5B ship recently, and it really caught my attention. It was fast, maneuverable, and would allow me to fly in the manner that interests me. While I am a competent pilot, I know nothing about the powerplants. I can make a good solder joint, can use a multimeter in its basic modes, and know the basics of the electrical system as it relates to RC. So, I have lots I can learn, while utilizing the skills I already have.

I have a VIP racer thats fun, but it only satisfies my need for speed. I have a Caleb that provides me with the capability of some soaring and as well as high speed flying. But, I am looking for the next step up;

Unlimited vertical climbs
High speed capability (say 130mph plus)
Motor run time of at least a couple minutes
Excellent maneuvering
Roughly 70-80" wing span or longer
Some soarging/thermaling ability
Fully molded or composite airframe
Minimal building time other than powerplant/RC equip
Easily transportable (two piece wing, removable stab, etc)
Cost range under $1500

I would need a recommendation of airframe, motor, gear, batteries, prop, and controller. While I can easily assemble, test, and fly the airplane, I have much to learn about how to evaluate and calculate the powerplants and performance numbers for component selection. Which is why I need a recommendation from the experts here. I have seen many airplanes that I know would meet these goals, but have no idea what equipment I would need to purchase to get the performance out of it.

Appreciate all your time, thanks.
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Old Oct 10, 2003, 10:08 AM
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Canada, NS, Lunenburg
Joined Oct 1999
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I would recommend you go to Shredair's site and look around there. Lots of fast airframes and matching powerplants in the F5B and F5F sections. Dieter will help you satisfy your needs whilst lightening your wallet. http://www.shredair.com/

Don't want to spend quite that much? Have a look at NE Sailplanes as well. http://www.nesail.com/
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Old Oct 13, 2003, 07:50 PM
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Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2003
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I've been to Shredair and NeSail web sites. Problem is, I don't really know what makes a good combination based on my requirements, and am leary of leaving the decisions to the reseller who has a vested interest. I'd much rather hear from pilots that have flown the various combinations, and have their own recommendations.

I'll throw a few darts at the mentioned web sites and see what sticks.
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Old Oct 13, 2003, 08:36 PM
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davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Let a beginner, begin.

I would say this about shredair. If you can tell them what you want, they will in my experience, tell you which of their range, best suits you. I also have had good service from NESail and Esprit model.

You cannot get a couple of minutes battery run. If you get over 90 seconds you are not pulling enough amps. You will want to run your Hacker B50 or equivalent at over 100 amps to get the right power to weight ratio.

I only have the money for one hotliner, a Spiro E. I love it and is fits many of your requirements. Personally I like the thermalling ability, coupled with modest aerobatics, and fast climbs. Its two piece and has flaps for easier landings.

Another plane, if you have the money, that would fit the requirements very well would be a Surprise 12 with 3 piece wing. Coupled with the appropriate 10 cell motor this would suit my requirements.

If you need more speed than that you likely need a 1 piece wing in true F5B style, namely surface are of 400 sq inch. Smaller Surprise , Avionik, Ariane or Scorpio will all do it for you. Just keep adding batteries till you are going fast enough.

What were the details of the setup that immpressed you when you saw it?
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 01:29 AM
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Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2003
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Vertical climb out to a spec in the sky in mere seconds, followed by high speed non powered maneuvers for minutes at a time. Then this cycle repeated for about 5 or 6 more climbouts. Total flight time around 15 minutes or so. I am an aerobatic pilot for the most part, and not really interested in thermalling. So, good maneuvering for aerobatics coupled with high speed flight, energy retention, and excellent vertical climbs to get me back up high enough to do it again are the primary things that caught my attention.
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 03:06 AM
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davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Gary Wright posted that he went for an NSP Ocelot.

There's a thread from a week ago about it.

As Jay pointed out in electric glider forum there's heaps of moulded sailplanes in the 60-90 inch range. Most of them are just ailerons and elevator, and no side area on the fuselage for knife edge.

Without power, rolls are going to use up a lot of energy, particularly with a higher aspect ratio wing.

Personally I wouldn't like to try a rolling circle with the Spiro just on glide, although a really good pilot could probably get through it with the flaps coupled to the ailerons.

I'll be interested to see what you end up with.
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 05:53 AM
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Belgium, Flemish Region, Oosterzele
Joined Dec 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidleitch


You cannot get a couple of minutes battery run.
Well, these days you can , but it's going to cost you. a xS18p Kokam 340 Lithium pack should give you 6Ah+ capacity. @ about 120amps that would be around 3 minutes....( In 5-10 seconds bursts of course...)
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 06:19 AM
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davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Wim

You are correct again.

I didn't consider the Lipos for this application, even though I have a couple of Thunderpower packs, as I am still not not sure how they would hold up under the load. If you get 10-15 minutes from 1 minute motor run I haven't seen the need.
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 07:01 AM
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soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,687 Posts
This must be the season. I have seen a lot of threads this week on hotliners. If you want fully molded here are some good choices...

scorpio, ocelot, fredy, flash E (I wish sal told me that was a two piece wing with flaps, I would have owned it), caleb, mini graphite, seledkin (STILL waiting for Fred to fly his )

Lot's of choices, decide on how many cells, then the motor and prop, and pick a light airframe that suits your needs. (I should just cut and past this)

Also do a search on threads that have tic and soholingo in them and you will find various success and failure stories about hotlining...

jay
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 10:33 AM
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Yogi's Avatar
Atlanta Hartsfield, Georgia, United States
Joined Apr 2002
1,046 Posts
the Sled

Jay,

the Sled is almost ready to go, I swear. The motor for it is on the way from Aircraft-world as I type this. Dieter has the spinner on the way when ge gets them in. I already have the RX, and a useable prop, and the servos were already installed. I still need to order some batteries, and make packs, as I don't have any kapton wrapped 10 cell packs.

I flew the Sirius all day yesterday, and it was a beautiful day. Got about 6 flights in. (Columbus day holliday is great.) Practiced doing two leg laps. Tried out my pedal launcher and it worked perfectly. Planned to post pics of it sometime soon. This baby makes the lauch, a TOTAL non issue, and it wasn't hard to build, and it didn't cost a lot of $$. The only bad thing that happed was that the VIP is toast. I switched flight conditions for higher throws, and the trims were WAY off on that mode, and it looked like it got a radio hit, and spiraled into the woods. Luckyly we found the crash, and recovered all the little bits. The B20 has a bent shaft, and hopefully can be fixed at Aero-Model. All the other insides were fine, but the airframe is toast. Did you know that the spar in a VIP has a FOAM sheer web?

~~fred
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Old Oct 14, 2003, 12:35 PM
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
739 Posts
Quote:
Did you know that the spar in a VIP has a FOAM sheer web?
I would think it's probably a Rohacell core. This is a common building material in very high-end molded models. The ICON F3J has Rohacell in the wing skins for example.

Quote:
The B20 has a bent shaft, and hopefully can be fixed at Aero-Model
I have a bent shaft on my B20 as well, and will be trying to fix it with the help of ptxman. It's just a 3mm shaft, so I got some drill rod from the local supplier and will try to get the rotor off the current busted shaft. If that works, I'll let you know. It'll be cheaper, since most repair sources for the Hackers will want to sell you a whole new rotor.

It would be great if Hacker would make their DD B20's with a thicker shaft.
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