SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:27 AM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
hi guys a non realted question but I would love the opinion of the advanced users in this group.

I have issues with Naza losing level... so much so that full forwared stick input means it only stays in one place.... of course this is incredibly dangerous.

One day it files fine the next its a danger to fly.
3.2kg hexa flying with 10" APC props on Foxtech FPV hexa frame.
I fly with flashed esc's and gains are relatively low at 180

Anyone else have this issue? I posted in the Naza thread but thought I would see here too.

Steve
Steve this sounds like GPS interference. I know it sounds stupid but I just did a couple test flights with as much interference as I could throw at the GPS as close as possible to the GPS (on $3k worth of gear in the air). The thing had a mind of it's own and hardly ever did the same thing twice. I then calibrated the compass and while things were better it wasn't good at all. It would just shoot across the field without input (in GPS) and when I pulled it back it would run that direction. Total mess. Have you added anything new to the system? Flying in a new field/location with possible interference/congestion?

I still got full sat (all green) sat lock in under 30 seconds... the thing was just wild.

Side Note: I had my RX100 running the entire time... looked like a boring hover around a field except I was banging the sticks the entire time. Thank you Gary and Andrey for making my heart attack flights look like a calm day of flying, your gimbal is absolutely amazing.

EDIT** Here is my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
Dear lord the Naza+GPS is HORRIBLE.....

.... where there is interference. I can totally see how people who don't have a lot of stick time can crash or have a fly away while not trying not to crash.

I put about as much interference as I could on my GPS module and attempted a few flights WITHOUT doing a new compass calibration. Sat lock came in under 30 seconds so I assumed it was all working like it always has.... NOPE. When I first took off (in GPS) it shot across the field like I was giving it 3/4 stick forward. I was 3/4 stick back when it leveled.... then RAN back towards me. I then gave it 3/4 forward and off it went again... this time full stick back wouldn't bring it back... and it now started YAWing (with no stick input) which makes orientation tricky for a all black hex that is more than 50ft away. I hit ATTI. I was then able to bring it back to me but what was weird is it was YAWing again. I was in 10mph winds so my gimbal could have been acting like a sail but it didn't 'feel' like it was the wind and it only did it to the left regardless of how I oriented it to the wind. I put almost all of the interference to the right of my hexa so maybe something is hitting the FC or even in ATTI the GPS gets some say so over what is happening.

Second flight, did compass calibration so see how much it could fix. Sat lock in under 30 seconds. Took off in GPS and noticed right away is was much better but it still wanted to jog across the field in all directions without even trying to come back to a GPS position. I had both basic and atti gains on my transmitter and regardless of how I adjusted them it still had a mind of its own, this time with less uncontrolled YAW (slight touches of YAW). I switched to ATTI and the YAW was still present.... then I brain farted. About 4-5ft off the ground I put it in manual.... on a 6+lb hexa that hovers closer to 65-70%.... smack down in some soft grass. Glad I wasn't a little higher, the $1100 in gimbal and $700 in camera was all attached

I risked $3000 to better understand what interference can do to the GPS/Naza and came to the conclusion that you REALLY need to focus on equipment placement OR buy a frame that will allow you to better isolate the GPS from EVERYTHING else. I have never use the GPS stalk but after this test I am looking into it. I knew I was probably on the edge of too much interference before but I don't want to be flying FPV when an external source puts me over the limit.
MCrites is offline Find More Posts by MCrites
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:54 AM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
Hi, thanks for the response, well it was cold outside but the heli had about 20 minutes to aclimatise... heck it was not even that cold say around zero deg C

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
Could possibly be an issue with letting it warm up before flight. I know the Phantom now has lights to indicate when the IMU is warmed up and it can take a few minutes or more at times.
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:56 AM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
Thanks Gary, I only fly in atti mode... I use GPS strictly for emergencies only. That being said some people do feel that the GPs plays a role in the flight even in atti mode.

my atti gains are at 100, when it's not fighting me that is plenty of available reaction to my inputs for me.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Steve, does it make a difference whether it is in GPS vs Attitude mode? If it is GPS mode, are you getting zero, or one red flash? What are your Attitude gains set at? These are the ones that set the control authority of the sticks.

The intermittent nature of this tends to make me believe it is either a faulty IMU or a bad GPS sensor. If it does this in the Attitude mode, as well as GPS mode, it most likely be the IMU. If it only does it in GPS mode, I'd say it is the GPS module, or a bad connection to the Naza unit.

-- Gary
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:58 AM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Cold = bad for the controller. You want it warm, not ambient when it's cold outside. Similar to keeping your batteries warm before flight because lipo's hate the cold.
MCrites is offline Find More Posts by MCrites
Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:14 AM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
This is very interesting to me... Did it also do strange things in atti mode? or only gps mode?

I would love to see a test to find out if the gps play any role in the atti mode flight.

I will rotate my battery (the lead is very close to the wire going to the compass) but first I need to duplicate the problem...

At any rate it was scary as heck.

thanks eveyone for the responses and sorry to be off topic but I would say this group seems to be the most experianced with Naza and heavier birds.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
Steve this sounds like GPS interference. I know it sounds stupid but I just did a couple test flights with as much interference as I could throw at the GPS as close as possible to the GPS (on $3k worth of gear in the air). The thing had a mind of it's own and hardly ever did the same thing twice. I then calibrated the compass and while things were better it wasn't good at all. It would just shoot across the field without input (in GPS) and when I pulled it back it would run that direction. Total mess. Have you added anything new to the system? Flying in a new field/location with possible interference/congestion?

I still got full sat (all green) sat lock in under 30 seconds... the thing was just wild.

Side Note: I had my RX100 running the entire time... looked like a boring hover around a field except I was banging the sticks the entire time. Thank you Gary and Andrey for making my heart attack flights look like a calm day of flying, your gimbal is absolutely amazing.

EDIT** Here is my post.
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:15 AM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
strange I found the opposite with all multi rotors before this one... my mikrokpters esecially need to sit in the cold for about ten minutes before flight

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
Cold = bad for the controller. You want it warm, not ambient when it's cold outside. Similar to keeping your batteries warm before flight because lipo's hate the cold.
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:19 AM
I never finish anyth
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Jan 2012
2,585 Posts
Steve, my experience on cold is mostly from what I have read. I live in Texas... it's going to be 80F (26C?) today.
MCrites is offline Find More Posts by MCrites
Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:23 AM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
sound nice and warm... we are -22 deg C without wind chill and -36 with wind chill today

Steve
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 01:40 PM
Destroyer of G-10
askman's Avatar
United States, OR
Joined Jul 2004
10,085 Posts
sensors do have issues with temperature change. that is why HFG does require gyro temperature calibration. In general though, modern solid state gyros are pretty robust. I run 60 att gain and at least in my environment, it has not been an issue, but it rarely goes below 30 degF I guess how they behave depends on how they are calibrated. my guess is that mk being from cooler climate act different than DJI which is from warmer climate. hmm interesting stuff.
askman is offline Find More Posts by askman
RCG Plus Member
Old Jan 29, 2013, 02:56 PM
Doing stuff since 1902.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
Joined Dec 2004
2,636 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
Thanks Gary, I only fly in atti mode... I use GPS strictly for emergencies only. That being said some people do feel that the GPs plays a role in the flight even in atti mode.Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
I would love to see a test to find out if the gps play any role in the atti mode flight.
There are very different kinds of users here, some are using multi-rotors as platform for photos and videos, other for FPV, myself I fly it as I would fly a medium-sized park flyer : I take off, I hover 15 secs, then I zoom around, making fly-bys, full throttle up, or acro-plane-stuff like that, and I never noticed a difference in flight between ATTI or GPS mode. Of course if I slow down and there's a strong wind, then the GPS kicks in... but that's not doing miracles.

For my own playstyle, this GPS is only worth for a RTH-failsafe
Olivier_C is offline Find More Posts by Olivier_C
Last edited by Olivier_C; Jan 29, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
Old Jan 29, 2013, 08:08 PM
Registered User
GGoodrum's Avatar
South Orange County, CA
Joined Mar 2003
8,099 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier_C View Post
There are very different kinds of users here, some are using multi-rotors as platform for photos and videos, other for FPV, myself I fly it as I would fly a medium-sized park flyer : I take off, I hover 15 secs, then I zoom around, making fly-bys, full throttle up, or acro-plane-stuff like that, and I never noticed a difference in flight between ATTI or GPS mode. Of course if I slow down and there's a strong wind, then the GPS kicks in... but that's not doing miracles.

For my own playstyle, this GPS is only worth for a RTH-failsafe
Well, I would imagine that most of the people in this thread, which is all about gimbals, would be primarily AP/AV users, not park flyers, like yourself.

-- Gary
GGoodrum is online now Find More Posts by GGoodrum
Old Jan 29, 2013, 08:22 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
797 Posts
Hey all,

Thought I would share my latest vid with the 550 + hardmounted Hero3 to the TpPacks 550 LG. I also recently upgraded to Sunnyskys and switched right back to the DJI motors as I started getting crazy vibes 0.o. Strange...

I know it is not Gimbal footage, but the isolated LG is relevant... Right? XD.

Cheers, Ced.

FPV & Jeep fun (6 min 11 sec)
c3d76 is offline Find More Posts by c3d76
Old Jan 29, 2013, 08:46 PM
Registered User
Mike SF's Avatar
United States, CA, SF
Joined Sep 2011
611 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
The RX100 is still one of my favorites, so we will always be looking at options for getting the most use out of this camera. At the moment, I'm testing my RX100 on a "balanced" AG600 installed on a Shrimp with isolated motors. In the past, the only way I've found to eliminate jello with this camera is to use an extra EAR-based secondary baseplate. For certain conditions, however, this sort of setup is less than optimum, for controlling micro-bounces. My hope is that by moving this secondary isolation to the motors, the RX100 will be still be jello free, while everything south of IMS silicon isolators can remain as rigid as possible, not to mention, balanced.

...

-- Gary
I actually like this secondary baseplate for the RX100. Together with isolating motor mounts, it works very well to get rid of jello. I'm seeing that other people recommend switching off the IOS of the RX100 to avoid jello. But the IOS helps a lot with micro bounces, so it sounds like a step backwards to me. This simple baseplate allows using ISO and having no jello.

The following video is using a AG500 gimbal on Rusty's frame with isolated motor mounts. I only added some post-stab to some clips, but most are unchanged besides color correction.

Tranquil Beach at Lake Tahoe (2 min 1 sec)
Mike SF is offline Find More Posts by Mike SF
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: New Website and Showreel
Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:37 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,042 Posts
yes it is strange but the sensors should be temperature calibrated... also I have flown in colder weather with naza and no issues....

Anyway sorry to be so off topic, thanks for all the feedback...

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by askman View Post
sensors do have issues with temperature change. that is why HFG does require gyro temperature calibration. In general though, modern solid state gyros are pretty robust. I run 60 att gain and at least in my environment, it has not been an issue, but it rarely goes below 30 degF I guess how they behave depends on how they are calibrated. my guess is that mk being from cooler climate act different than DJI which is from warmer climate. hmm interesting stuff.
saabguyspg is offline Find More Posts by saabguyspg
Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:31 PM
Destroyer of G-10
askman's Avatar
United States, OR
Joined Jul 2004
10,085 Posts
very nice mikeSF. amazing.

mucho snow there ced wow. some of the best videos before stabilization were done with isolation/FPV flight. . with today's stabilization software , simple setup can be a useful tool. best to have several tool in your tool chest.
askman is offline Find More Posts by askman
RCG Plus Member
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Sony Nex 5n aerial samples. jeffscholl Aerial Photography 1463 Today 11:01 AM
Discussion DJI WK-M - Droidworx Hex Build Huddo Multirotor Talk 41 Dec 31, 2011 07:58 AM
Discussion Sony NEX 5N raw video footage SeismicCWave Multirotor Talk 5 Nov 17, 2011 12:10 AM
Discussion Which is best: "Sony Nex 5" or "Panasonic GH2"? babanan Aerial Photography 6 Sep 08, 2011 04:27 PM
Discussion What gyros to use on a 2 Axis camera gimbal? Voguna Aerial Photography 0 Mar 13, 2011 11:51 AM