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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Banana Furikake View Post
I'm getting around 7 min. on a shrimp with 1x5000 4s- I put down the info on an earlier post. Andrey mentioned that you'd get around 50% more time with an additional battery. I am steadily dialing my stuff in again and will have videos up as soon as the weather is good enough to fly. I tried taking some in the last couple of days but the 12-20 mph winds didn't help.

Andrey- Gary- I'll send you an e-mail about the isolators and some other stuff.
Ya, flight time has everything to do with weight. If your shrimp is lifting less weight (lighter camera, no secondary camera, HDMI out, etc) then you will get longer fight times, even with a smaller battery. Unfortunately adding more batteries doesn't lead to that much more flight time as your adding weight and weight means your motors have to run that much harder and burn more electrons. I was hoping going from a 5800 to a 8000 would give me an additional 2 minutes, but in reality, I only got less then a minute added to my flight time. It's all about finding that sweet spot for battery size that balances flight times with weight.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Flying time is really the main reason that I am waiting for the king crab. I want at least 10min. This is the biggest reason why I havent ordered the lobster yet. And the king will also hopefully be able to lift heavier cameras than my nex5n. Really looking forward to get more info about it. I think santa want to buy me one
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:40 PM
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I had my doctors appointment and she wanted to do more testing, so it is good. may be I won't need surgery afterall. I am feeling pretty welll compared to last week, so things are looking up.


motor isolation is pretty high on things to do. in general though, you still need to do a pretty good job on the balancing, but should help the last bit. the key is mounting it loose enough to do the job.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SaSaAir54 View Post
Hello all...im having alot of problems with vibration and fine tunning my gimbal...so im trying to follow all of you guys to see what i pick up on...good pointers ont he motor isolations, dont knwo how im gona do it on mine, i have Avrotos with extention plates on a F550. if anyone can give me some feedback.

Also, im new to this i keep hearing you guys say "jello" and "ims" ....want to follow better, can someone explain please...Thanks
Jello is when there are waves in the video because of vibration.
This is the IMS: http://tppacks.com/store/index.php?r...&product_id=59

I guess you are using a gimbal from tppacks.com?
which one?

I don't own a f550 but on my frame from rusty it's just a regular motor Mount With vibration dampening in between: http://www.shop.aglhobbiesllc.com/Mo...ion-Mount.html
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Daloaf View Post
Ya, flight time has everything to do with weight. If your shrimp is lifting less weight (lighter camera, no secondary camera, HDMI out, etc) then you will get longer fight times, even with a smaller battery. Unfortunately adding more batteries doesn't lead to that much more flight time as your adding weight and weight means your motors have to run that much harder and burn more electrons. I was hoping going from a 5800 to a 8000 would give me an additional 2 minutes, but in reality, I only got less then a minute added to my flight time. It's all about finding that sweet spot for battery size that balances flight times with weight.
Yup- that's why I'm so excited about the H3. Lighter package. Though I'm pondering whether to get the 16-50 when it comes out.

I did some more testing today and definitely over 7 minutes flying around in calm conditions- that's at about 13.8V left. I've taken it down to 13.2 under load before but that gets real scary real fast.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by askman View Post
I had my doctors appointment and she wanted to do more testing, so it is good. may be I won't need surgery afterall. I am feeling pretty welll compared to last week, so things are looking up.


motor isolation is pretty high on things to do. in general though, you still need to do a pretty good job on the balancing, but should help the last bit. the key is mounting it loose enough to do the job.
Crossing my fingers for ya and sending good thoughts your way Andrey.

I think I'm getting some high frequency vibration that's hitting the gimbal- which I think may be affecting the HF board. I'll have raw videos posted with the next hour or so. In terms of balancing- I have those absolutely dialed. Zero movement on the balancer.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:33 PM
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OK. Two videos. Both are raw and haven't had anything done to them. (e.g. no stabilization). The reason they're both dark- shot at f22. (lazy so I didn't have to focus on anything). Conditions were calm.

Shrimp Test 2 is the best (though my card ran out of room toward then end- oops). I'll be running both through some post processing using FC stabilization and increasing the exposure just a tiny bit. I like Shrimp test 1 after stabilization too. Just a little stabilization oddity in the grass as I fly near it.

Shrimp Test 2:

12_21_12_Shrimp_Test 2 (4 min 6 sec)


Shrimp Test 1:

12_21_12_Shrimp_Test_1 (6 min 51 sec)
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Stabilized Shrimp 2 Test- Note- the ascent along the building windows looks better on the raw footage than the stabilized version.

12_21_12_Shrimp_Test 2 Modified (4 min 6 sec)


Test 1 mod
12_21_12_Shrimp_Test 1 Modified (6 min 51 sec)
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:59 AM
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Absolutely fantastic work. Very interesting thread indeed!

I am amazed to see how much R&D you guys have put into this project, of building the ultimate gimbal for us crazy AV amateurs.

I am planning to build the FY680 folding hexacopter.
Without knowing the details, would you guys guess that it would be possible to mount this fantastic gimbal on the FY680? (With some fiddling, of course)

Would it be possible to mount the AG500 2-Axis Gimbal on a flat surface/bottom?

Keep up the good work

Peter
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Banana Furikake View Post
OK. Two videos. Both are raw and haven't had anything done to them. (e.g. no stabilization). The reason they're both dark- shot at f22. (lazy so I didn't have to focus on anything). Conditions were calm.

Shrimp Test 2 is the best (though my card ran out of room toward then end- oops). I'll be running both through some post processing using FC stabilization and increasing the exposure just a tiny bit. I like Shrimp test 1 after stabilization too. Just a little stabilization oddity in the grass as I fly near it.

These are great results. This is with the 18-55mm kit lens, right? The raw videos have very little lens bounce, which we've all seen in the past with this setup, especially during forward flight. I did see a couple spots in Test 1 where there was just a hint of vertical "micro-bounces", but these are completely gone in the stabilized version. What I've found is that with FCP's stabilization function, any sort of bouncing with enough amplitude will either still get through the stabilization, or it will turn into warping. Mercalli is a bit better, but only slightly, in this regard.

From previous tests, I've found that running the silicon isolators loose, in the IMS, will minimize jello-inducing vibrations, but it makes it more susceptible to wind, or forward flight-induced bounces, mainly in the tilt axis. Running them tight, gets the bouncing under control, but it means more jello for cameras that are particularly susceptible, which we've handled via extra isolation at the camera baseplate. I'm now convinced that the key might be to keep everything "south" of the IMS isolators as rigid as possible, and add extra isolation ahead of the IMS, mainly via isolated motor mounts, but also by still doing a good job of balancing the props.

The mail has been slow this week, I'm sure due to the Christmas rush, so I still haven't received the new isolated motor mounts for my Shrimp. I should get them today, though, and just as soon as I do I will swap these into my Shrimp, and do some more testing. Based on what I've already seen with my F330 tests, I'm convinced that these will do well, so I'm hopeful we can make them available next week, right after Christmas. There will be two versions of these, one for the 2216s, and one for the 2814s. This is because we will use the X mounts that come with the motors, and the ones for the 2814s are slightly bigger. Either set, the 2216 version, or the 2814 set, will work on both the Shrimp/Crab frames, and also on the Lobster/King Crab. These mounts will be motor specific, but not platform specific.

There will also be a slightly different isolated mount for the DJI Flamewheel arms (F330, F450 and F550...). For this one, we will have two plates, mainly because the DJI motors don't come with the X mounts. Anyway, the plan is to have these DJI isolated motor mount kits available next week as well.

-- Gary
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:41 PM
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These are great results. This is with the 18-55mm kit lens, right? The raw videos have very little lens bounce, which we've all seen in the past with this setup, especially during forward flight. I did see a couple spots in Test 1 where there was just a hint of vertical "micro-bounces", but these are completely gone in the stabilized version. What I've found is that with FCP's stabilization function, any sort of bouncing with enough amplitude will either still get through the stabilization, or it will turn into warping. Mercalli is a bit better, but only slightly, in this regard.
Yep- 18-55. I've been playing some more with the NEX5N and made some changes to the settings. I'll keep it on aperture priority, set the aperture to 11, keep manual focus (and focus on the horizon before mounting) and change color to vivid. We'll see how that works.

There were definitely some micro-bounces- but the larger bounces can't be helped in wind. What was really interesting for me is that I had to take the roll gain on the HF down to 205 (running 1.03). On previous test flights I was getting twitching at gains that were higher. I also dropped the ATTI gains down to 40 which seemed to help. The other gains I had were set at 275 across the board with vertical gain set to 250.

I also looked at Mercalli but if the improvement is minimal I'll just stick with FCP.

I think the last step on this shrimp before it is perfectly dialed is to add the motor isolators.

I'm hoping to get out to Silver Creek Falls in the near future to get some footage as soon as I'm 100% dialed in. (there's a 177 foot waterfall here- and I'd by flying out from the top). Anything less than 100% won't do since there's zero room for error in those flying conditions.

Also- baseplate isolation? Tell me more!

The straight lines and the numbers on the track really show off the stability of the platform.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Banana Furikake View Post
OK. Two videos. Both are raw and haven't had anything done to them. (e.g. no stabilization). The reason they're both dark- shot at f22. (lazy so I didn't have to focus on anything). Conditions were calm.

Shrimp Test 2 is the best (though my card ran out of room toward then end- oops). I'll be running both through some post processing using FC stabilization and increasing the exposure just a tiny bit. I like Shrimp test 1 after stabilization too. Just a little stabilization oddity in the grass as I fly near it.

Shrimp Test 2:

https://vimeo.com/56127513

Shrimp Test 1:

https://vimeo.com/56126689
Yes, looking good . Pitch looks perfect, but Roll looks like it needs tweaking to me... I'm no expert though, and I'm still waiting for weather to clear so I can finish tweaking my HFG settings. I am sticking to 1.8 for now, and both calculation modes work better on mode 1 contrary to my previous post...

It would be great if we could all post what settings we are using for the Gimbals and Platforms discussed in this thread.
When the S800 was having Flip of death issues a user created a spreadsheet for all to post their setup etc... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XSjBxdGc#gid=1

I've decided to try the same thing for the TPpacks platforms. Settings should be pretty close especially for those of us using the same Gimbal with same Controller and same Camera/lens etc...

If this works out maybe Gary can post the link at the beginning of this thread (or the new thread?) for easy reference. I am mostly interested in the Hoverfly settings and FC gains, but questions often come up on motor setups, what Lipo and flight time, etc...

Feel free to add a section as anyone can edit, and It seems to me (from the S800 spreadsheet) that most people here are capable of doing so in a "civilized" manner

Post your info here :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1J2SElVakE2OUE

Cedric
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:06 PM
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Yes, looking good . Pitch looks perfect, but Roll looks like it needs tweaking to me... I'm no expert though, and I'm still waiting for weather to clear so I can finish tweaking my HFG settings. I am sticking to 1.8 for now, and both calculation modes work better on mode 1 contrary to my previous post...
Cedric
Hey Cedric- what do you think... down or up on the roll gain.

I'll post my info on your Google spreadsheet as soon as I get a chance!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 05:38 PM
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Hey Cedric- what do you think... down or up on the roll gain.

I'll post my info on your Google spreadsheet as soon as I get a chance!
Not sure sorry... Wish I could tell from that footage alone.

It sounds like your roll gain is low already, so maybe it has something to do with the roll Belt tension? I seem to recall Daloaf mentioning he solved some twitching after loosening the belt slightly... (not sure)

But hey, your footage still looks awesome!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by c3d76 View Post
Not sure sorry... Wish I could tell from that footage alone.

It sounds like your roll gain is low already, so maybe it has something to do with the roll Belt tension? I seem to recall Daloaf mentioning he solved some twitching after loosening the belt slightly... (not sure)

But hey, your footage still looks awesome!
I messed with the roll belt tension so it isn't super tight. Any looser and it'll actually skip.

I just dropped the roll gain to 200 to see if that has any effect.

Thanks!!!
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