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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:37 PM
Destroyer of G-10
askman's Avatar
Joined Jul 2004
10,036 Posts
10" zingers have 6mm hub, you can use either heatshrink around teh 5mm hub to turn to 6 or use 5-8mm adapter and bore the prop to 8mm, which makes them same as graupners. we use poly tubing as adapter and works well. (that is how I am running mine)
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:44 PM
John
United States, WA, Mason
Joined Apr 2011
765 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
Thats not bad, time to do some high altitude spy videos

Were you flying in the rain?
It had SORT OF stopped. So I ran out to do a quick test of some Zinger props I just put on. Then it sort of started again. Didn't stay up too long. Then if you see video on post 6049 the next day it was sort of snowing. -- JOHN
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:45 PM
Video Juggernaut
Wingbreaker's Avatar
FL
Joined Nov 2003
2,396 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by askman View Post
10" zingers have 6mm hub, you can use either heatshrink around teh 5mm hub to turn to 6 or use 5-8mm adapter and bore the prop to 8mm, which makes them same as graupners. we use poly tubing as adapter and works well. (that is how I am running mine)
thanks
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:28 PM
Destroyer of G-10
askman's Avatar
Joined Jul 2004
10,036 Posts
anyway, I am feeling pretty good, so I am back in full production. thank you for all your good wishes. I believe I passed several stones last week, and why i was so ill for few days. I do have meeting with doctor on friday to decide on future course though. we will see what happens.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:37 PM
uavservices on MRF
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Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,905 Posts
All the best to you and hope you are able to get back to 100%

Steve
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 06:07 PM
Registered User
YOW
Joined Sep 2004
271 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by askman View Post
anyway, I am feeling pretty good, so I am back in full production. thank you for all your good wishes. I believe I passed several stones last week, and why i was so ill for few days. I do have meeting with doctor on friday to decide on future course though. we will see what happens.
Hi Askman,

Get well soon. Best wishes.

Victor
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:34 AM
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South Orange County, CA
Joined Mar 2003
7,878 Posts
I had a breakthrough, of sorts, today, in my quest to eliminate that pesky jello the H3B is so susceptible to in the 2.7k/30p mode. In solving this problem I think we've also come up with a solution to the other related problem that has plagued me, and many of you, and that is the micro-bounces with the gimbals that are hard to eliminate. John has shown that with a lot of levels of isolation, ahead of the gimbal, you can get smoother video. The key though is that from the silicon isolators in the IMS, the gimbal needs to be rigid.

What I found out today, though, is that instead of several extra levels of isolation, all you really need to do is isolate the motors. The key is this needs to be fairly "loose", or soft isolation. Forget about torque movements. The Naza sorts all that out. The looser the better, based I what I tried today.

Below is a video from a flight I did late this afternoon, using a tiny DJI F330 that has been modified to isolate the motors, and then it has a simple hard isolated mount for the H3B that uses four of the silicon isolators. This is using the DJI standard 8" plastic props, and I did not try to balance them first.

Hero3 Black Isolation Test 02 (3 min 16 sec)


I used Mercalli 2.0 to smooth out the roll movements, and MB Looks to flatten out the fisheye effect and to adjust the color a bit. The inset video in the bottom right is the raw video. One thing I've discovered is that if there is any jello in the raw video, Mercalli tends to make it worse. I could never find any combination of settings that would take out the jello. At best, it turns it into a weird warping. Anyway, without the jello, it does a great job of smoothing out unwanted roll movements.

Tomorrow I should have some new motor plates Andrey did that will allow each of the six motors on my Shrimp to be fully isolated. I will then do more testing to see if this finally eliminates the bounce problem that has plagued me for awhile now. Assuming these do work as well as the isolated motor plates on the F330, we will start making these available as an upgrade for the Shrimp, Crab and Lobster platforms, and we will have a variant for all the DJI "Flamewheel" frame sets (F330, F450 and F550...)

-- Gary
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:18 AM
Video Juggernaut
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FL
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nice looking forward to super smooth video at 2.7k
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Joined Aug 2012
129 Posts
Max prop size on the Lobster?

Gary could you tell me what the max prop size on the Lobster is? I just bought some new turnigy engines with 390Kv, so they need big props or big battery to be efficient.
I want to get a nice Y6 with gimbal platform and that lobster with AG-700 is looking good!

Thanks,

Chewy
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:37 AM
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AlanGold's Avatar
Joined Oct 2012
784 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Tomorrow I should have some new motor plates Andrey did that will allow each of the six motors on my Shrimp to be fully isolated. I will then do more testing to see if this finally eliminates the bounce problem that has plagued me for awhile now. Assuming these do work as well as the isolated motor plates on the F330, we will start making these available as an upgrade for the Shrimp, Crab and Lobster platforms, and we will have a variant for all the DJI "Flamewheel" frame sets (F330, F450 and F550...)

-- Gary
That is pretty good news. While I don't have my Hero 3 yet I have been testing my p&s at 1080p on my TBS Discovery. I found that 8 inch DJI props showed much less vibration than 10 inch DJI or Gemfam (cheap version) props. I am awaiting 9 inch Graupners. I also tried GWS 8040 triple props after seeing that people on the Scarab forum get good results. But I could barely fly the copter with them on and the video still had vibration. Yes, I have done my best to balance the props. My motors (Sunnysky V2216 800kv which I bought in anticipation of using the same models on a Shrimp) also seem smooth according to the the vibration software on my smartphone. And I shot video with the motors running without props and it looked fine.

I could not get good results with my camera mounted at the front of the Discovery using various materials between it and the Disco. But when I used a platform underneath that had some foam isolation from the machine and also mounted the camera on some jelly all is good. I'm hoping your new motor mounts will let me use the Disco with the Hero 3 mounted on the front as intended.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:51 AM
Destroyer of G-10
askman's Avatar
Joined Jul 2004
10,036 Posts
should work with upto 15" i am pretty sure. we've tested it with 13" and have lot of room.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:29 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2012
74 Posts
Will the hfg gimbal controller be A LOT better than the wkm on my f550 with ag550 v1.2? I've read about horizon problems, and have not this on my wkm.
Just wondering if it is worth the upgrade.
Thanks
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:41 PM
Aerial Abstract Art
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San Francisco, CA
Joined Nov 2005
2,373 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokla55 View Post
Will the hfg gimbal controller be A LOT better than the wkm on my f550 with ag550 v1.2? I've read about horizon problems, and have not this on my wkm.
Just wondering if it is worth the upgrade.
Thanks
There is a horizon tilt when yawing, but everything else is so much better then the WK, it more then makes up for it. Unless the wind is perfectly calm, I could never get decent footage from the WK, but with the HF, once you get the gains and acceleration setup correct, you can get beautiful, stable video.

Anyway, here is my latest test video in my backyard. I added isolation to the stand offs that support the gimbal and removed quite a bit of motor vibration (although there is still some). I also tightened up the ISO grommets on the gimbal to help with the micro bounces. I still need to tweak the gains a bit. I keep playing with them and sometimes make them worse, rather then better. The wind in this video was only about 5mph, so it was pretty calm.

Another Lobster, AG600 and NEX5N test in the backyard (5 min 56 sec)
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:16 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2012
752 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
I had a breakthrough, of sorts, today, in my quest to eliminate that pesky jello the H3B is so susceptible to in the 2.7k/30p mode. In solving this problem I think we've also come up with a solution to the other related problem that has plagued me, and many of you, and that is the micro-bounces with the gimbals that are hard to eliminate. John has shown that with a lot of levels of isolation, ahead of the gimbal, you can get smoother video. The key though is that from the silicon isolators in the IMS, the gimbal needs to be rigid.

What I found out today, though, is that instead of several extra levels of isolation, all you really need to do is isolate the motors. The key is this needs to be fairly "loose", or soft isolation. Forget about torque movements. The Naza sorts all that out. The looser the better, based I what I tried today.

Below is a video from a flight I did late this afternoon, using a tiny DJI F330 that has been modified to isolate the motors, and then it has a simple hard isolated mount for the H3B that uses four of the silicon isolators. This is using the DJI standard 8" plastic props, and I did not try to balance them first.

http://youtu.be/4M__mUge004

I used Mercalli 2.0 to smooth out the roll movements, and MB Looks to flatten out the fisheye effect and to adjust the color a bit. The inset video in the bottom right is the raw video. One thing I've discovered is that if there is any jello in the raw video, Mercalli tends to make it worse. I could never find any combination of settings that would take out the jello. At best, it turns it into a weird warping. Anyway, without the jello, it does a great job of smoothing out unwanted roll movements.

Tomorrow I should have some new motor plates Andrey did that will allow each of the six motors on my Shrimp to be fully isolated. I will then do more testing to see if this finally eliminates the bounce problem that has plagued me for awhile now. Assuming these do work as well as the isolated motor plates on the F330, we will start making these available as an upgrade for the Shrimp, Crab and Lobster platforms, and we will have a variant for all the DJI "Flamewheel" frame sets (F330, F450 and F550...)

-- Gary
Great work, Gary. I will definitely get a set of those for my Disco when they are available.

One thing that I want to point out though, is that the GP3 tends to have less "jello" in darker situations. It's something to do with the sensor working at a higher ISO (don't quote me on that). However, even in my own backyard tests, that proves to be true. Some guys are having success eliminating the last bit of "jello" with a simple polarizing filter. So, they may be something else going on besides just rolling shutter artifacts.

It would be good if you could do the same test in the full light of day to make sure that the low light situation you were flying in didn't affect the results.

Regardless, great work on the motor isolators.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:11 PM
Explorer
åsmund's Avatar
Norge, Telemark, Notodden
Joined Jul 2005
188 Posts
I noticed with gopro 1 there was less jello the less light there was, but in that case I think the lack of details made them invisible.

I removed the ims silicon isolators today but did not have the time to test. I am using rusty's anti vibration motor mount so I hope to get jello free video fom nex5n and no micro bouncing. Still, the wkm as gimbal controller will make sure I can't get perfect video. Tomorrow I want to upload the video demonstrating with servos connected, without servos connected and without silicon isolators.

And it sounds like my servos are not in their best shape anymore, but they work so I'm not sure. I have forced the servos to go beyond the limit of the gimbal a few times,,,I get so mad at myself.
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