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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:26 PM
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I'm running 4s 5000 and 5800's on my F550 with graupner 9x5 props and I'm lifting just under 9lbs no problem. That being said, maybe 10's would be even better, but I don't have any to test.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:48 PM
I never finish anyth
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Your motors aren't burning hot when you land? My are pretty warm and I think I am 6-7lbs
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Your motors aren't burning hot when you land? My are pretty warm and I think I am 6-7lbs
Mine aren't even really warm to the touch. Maybe 80-90 degrees max on a 70 degree day. That being said, if I fly in manual mode, I need about 70% throttle to hover. I can still climb quick enough though. I am looking forward to having the extra power of bigger motors on the lobster when they become available. I'm still trying to decide between the HL W4822 690kv, the Dualsky XM4010TE-6 720KV and the Sunnysky 3508 700kv. Of course if I go with a non pancake motor like the Sunnysky 2814 700kv, my DJI 30A esc's might work better with them. Too many decisions and not enough people that have tested them all out to get good advice The HL 4822 on 12" Props is where I'm leaning though.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:14 AM
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Good Gimbal

I need to know what gimbal I should get for my DJI 550.
I will be running a Hero2 or 3 in it.

Thanks for any help!
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by UniversalRC View Post
Ok everybody start chanting Lobster, Lobster, Lobster, Lobster, Lobster....


Helloooooo Gary!! Time to wake up from wedding bells

Don't make me have to fix my broken Hex......

Finger on the buy button
Okay, I'm back. . The wedding was awesome. They got married at the church at the University of San Diego, where they both went to school, and we had the reception at a nice hotel in La Jolla (Estancia...). The weather was a perfect 85 degrees. Anyway, I'm recovering nicely, the kids are posting Facebook pics from Bora Bora and, most importantly, I'm done writing checks. We're going to have to sell a whole crapload of gimbals for me to get solvent again.

So, my priority now is to get caught back up, and get the new website up. I only had time to get most of the domestic shipments for the v2 yoke upgrades out last week, before the wedding activities consumed all my time, but I got a few more out yesterday afternoon and the rest will go this morning. I'm going to try to get at least the gimbals up on the new website today. The Lobster will be right after that.

It looks like we will now have three gimbal sizes. In addition to the existing AG550v2 and the larger AG700, we are going the other direction, and will do a smaller one that is optimized for the new GoPro Hero3. I have the first one here already, so I'll post some pics later.

More later...

-- Gary
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:43 AM
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Thanks Gary,

I'll PM you my list of needs. Put me on the list for the first GoPro gimbal since I use Action Cams most
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:16 AM
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I'll say one thing, the Lobster is sturdy as a tank. I had a crash yesterday when the EzOSD's current measuring module crapped out, causing a total power loss and a drop from about 50 feet up into a bunch of trees. It was completely wedged in so badly that you couldn't see it. We found the 4s-8000 pack on the ground, along with the PJ710V's sun shade, but it took awhile longer to actually find the Lobster. The amazing part is the only damage is one broken Zinger and the mast for the Naza's GPS module is gone. Everything else is fine, including the landing gear, the gimbal and the cameras. Amazing.

AG700 PJ 2 Axis Gimbal Test 02 (2 min 24 sec)


I had done this flight after loosening up the silicon grommet screws 1/4-turn each, to see if that would remove the roll micro bounces I was seeing in parts of the last flight, while moving forward. It appears that this did in fact help, but I didn't get a lot of time to test it before the crash. Also, I still need to bump up the roll acceleration slightly, as I can see a slight lag for really fast roll movements. There was one right after it got up in the air.

-- Gary
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:20 AM
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whole efficiency and flight time is balancing act. if you look at motor performance, each have preferred size that they are most efficient at(prop size wise vs voltage usually) you are looking for maximum lift/watt, which usually is at lower rpm. but we also need usable rpm and good wind performance.

also, cooler running motor usually means it is more efficient. (less wasted to heat)

higher voltage means lower current, and that usually helps with efficientcy, but only few percentages. but without lower kv pancakes, you can't get higher voltage. but we also need to tradeoff between cost and efficiency as well. it is a balance that we are trying to find. F550 is first mass produced affordable multi that performs pretty well and that is main reason why it was chosen to be first base. with more choices in motor and such, we can be bit more choosy, but still lot of variables to consider. i do like my WL motors, and looking forward to testing sunnysky 3508. I think these are next generation of motors that will be the mainstay of multi next year.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Thanks for the ride Gary! Good to hear it all turned out ok
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:54 PM
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I actually was one of the original promoters of going to higher voltage setups in the early electric heli setups, back about 10 years ago. Back then the early LiPo setups tried to match voltages with the NiCd setups, so the bulk of the first ThunderPower packs were in a 4s4p configuration of 2000mAh LiPo cells. Moving up to 6s and then eventually 10s, required lower kV motors, and higher voltage ESCs. It took us three years of constant whining to get Castle Creations to do the "HV" version of their controllers that would handle up to 12s. In any case, I've always been a proponent of higher voltage setups, but mainly for high performance 3D heli rigs. Watts are watts, but with higher voltage you have lower current and usually a lot less voltage sag to deal with under heavy loads. Voltage sag in a helicopter means a reduction of rotor speed, which you don't want in the middle of a high load 3D maneuver.

With MRs, in general, the loading is less, so voltage sag is less of an issue. There's really no correlation between voltage and motor efficiency and prop size, at least in terms of heat losses. When you go up in voltage, without a corresponding drop in motor kV, the prop is going to spin faster, which is going to put a limit on prop sizes. Our problem with switching to larger props has more to do with not having a lot of kV choices for our motors of choice. There do seem to be more lower kV choices with the pancakes, though, so those are the most likely ones that will allow moving up in voltage a bit, to like 5s or 6s, and for trying different size prop options.

One of the biggest limiting factors, to going to higher voltage setups, is that there aren't really any higher voltage ESC options that are "multirotor friendly", like the 30 and 40A reflashed HK variants we've all been using. I know the pancakes don't like the standard SimonK reflash, so maybe there might be some 6s ESC options that will work with the pancakes.

Finally, the type of prop has more of an impact on motor efficiency than anything. I could fly my F550 all day long at 8 pounds, and not have the motors feel warm at all, as long as I used 10x5 Graupners. With anything else, the motors would run hot, even at 6-1/2 pounds. The Zingers, I've now found, tend to be just as good as the Graupners, heat-wise, and seem to be a bit less prone to vibrations. My current Lobster setup, with a 4s-8000 pack and a PJ710V, weighs right at 10 pounds. This is with Zinger 12x5s on the bottom, and 12x4s on top.

-- Gary
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:04 PM
I never finish anyth
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Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
Finally, the type of prop has more of an impact on motor efficiency than anything. I could fly my F550 all day long at 8 pounds, and not have the motors feel warm at all, as long as I used 10x5 Graupners. With anything else, the motors would run hot, even at 6-1/2 pounds.
I remember you saying this but my F550 motors are pretty hot after just 5 -6 minutes with the 10x5 Graups. So hot I am starting to worry and give them a lot of time to cool in between flights. Is there something I need to check? My F550 is balanced before EVERY flight and all motors are about the same temp.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
I remember you saying this but my F550 motors are pretty hot after just 5 -6 minutes with the 10x5 Graups. So hot I am starting to worry and give them a lot of time to cool in between flights. Is there something I need to check? My F550 is balanced before EVERY flight and all motors are about the same temp.
What our the outdoor temps when your flying. I see your from TX, so I have to ask. If it's 100 degrees out, your motors are going to be much hotter after a flight then if it's 60 degrees out.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:44 PM
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80-90F typically.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:49 PM
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San Francisco, CA
Joined Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGoodrum View Post
I'll say one thing, the Lobster is sturdy as a tank. I had a crash yesterday when the EzOSD's current measuring module crapped out, causing a total power loss and a drop from about 50 feet up into a bunch of trees. It was completely wedged in so badly that you couldn't see it. We found the 4s-8000 pack on the ground, along with the PJ710V's sun shade, but it took awhile longer to actually find the Lobster. The amazing part is the only damage is one broken Zinger and the mast for the Naza's GPS module is gone. Everything else is fine, including the landing gear, the gimbal and the cameras. Amazing.

http://youtu.be/GMlza6LElL8

I had done this flight after loosening up the silicon grommet screws 1/4-turn each, to see if that would remove the roll micro bounces I was seeing in parts of the last flight, while moving forward. It appears that this did in fact help, but I didn't get a lot of time to test it before the crash. Also, I still need to bump up the roll acceleration slightly, as I can see a slight lag for really fast roll movements. There was one right after it got up in the air.

-- Gary
Sorry to hear about your crash, but glad the lobster survived. The video was looking pretty good up until that point. I need to try and loosen my iso grommets as well as I'm getting a similar roll bounce as you were getting. Might as well do it when I'm putting on the new yoke.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
80-90F typically.
That will do it. I fly a lot of giant scale electric 3D planes and my buddies in TX all have to run smaller props and make baffles for their motors to help keep them cool. Or they fly early in the morning or later in the evening. Figure if the outside temps are higher, you're cooling your motors off with 90 degree air vs someone else cooling their motors off with 60 degree air. Your motors being 20-30 degrees hotter makes sense. My stock DJI motors with 9x5 graupners come down at around 80-90 degrees. If I fly in 90 degree weather, they might come down 110-120 or so.
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Last edited by Daloaf; Oct 30, 2012 at 04:28 PM.
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