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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:31 PM
Banzai Institute
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United States, NY, West Seneca
Joined Oct 2005
542 Posts
Capt'n my advice for you is to learn the search functions available here on RCG. The world of modeling knowledge is here for you when you do. You can start by going to the top right of the page and under thread tools you can search this thread. Better yet is go to the main search page and do an advanced search which can be more detailed and you can search all threads or any one in particular. Once you become used to the search functions you can find what you are looking for faster than you can by posting a help question. Its a big world out there and chances are some one has been there done that on what interests you and is willing to share it. That to me is the best part of RCG.

Cheers,
Dean
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:10 PM
Mach One
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Joined Apr 2011
2,180 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckaroo View Post
Capt'n my advice for you is to learn the search functions available here on RCG. The world of modeling knowledge is here for you when you do. You can start by going to the top right of the page and under thread tools you can search this thread. Better yet is go to the main search page and do an advanced search which can be more detailed and you can search all threads or any one in particular. Once you become used to the search functions you can find what you are looking for faster than you can by posting a help question. Its a big world out there and chances are some one has been there done that on what interests you and is willing to share it. That to me is the best part of RCG.

Cheers,
Dean
Thanks for the note and advise. I have used the search functions, and yes, you are correct, it is a huge world out there. Thats how I found this specifc forum, now asking the owners and pilots of the specific aircraft the question. I will continue my seach in cyber space but I much prefer a human contact where I can discuss this aircraft and better understand the requirements.....
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:10 AM
Banzai Institute
buckaroo's Avatar
United States, NY, West Seneca
Joined Oct 2005
542 Posts
Capt'n I have not yet bought this plane but I will soon. I have also been contemplating the set up. The biggest question starts with the battery choice. I always prefer volts over amps. This plane will balance out with 8 cells so that is my choice. That creates an issue in having to buy a more expensive HV controller. I use Castle controllers and also have used controllers bought direct from China. You pay more for a Castle but if something breaks you can not beat their service. With cheaper controllers from China its mostly impractical to send them back so they become useless. Having said that, this is the controller I will use for this plane.

http://www.himodel.com/electric/ICE_...0A-ICE_HV.html

Its a controller I have read good things about and wanted to try one out. I have purchased from HiModel before and I like their service and shipping. This controller gives you plenty of headroom for both volts and amps and the price is right to give it a try.

I have not yet settled on the fan motor combo. Keep in mind that weight is always a paramount consideration. If my choice was based on that alone than I would do as Herb and use a Midi setup. I am used to flying higher wing loaded scale planes so I am leaning towards a higher blade count fan to get that quiet jet sound. Anything with a metal shroud will add even more weight. All these factors come in to play. I have two CS90 12 blades laying around but if using that fan you have to make sure you buy it from X-flight to make sure you get the stronger rotor. Earlier versions of this fan were cumming apart and CS improved the rotor material but some retailers are still selling the old rotors with their fans. Another big consideration for me is using a motor with an 8mm shaft. I am uncomfortable putting that much power through a 5mm shaft unless its a proven set up like the wemo. 8mm shafts will lower your motor choices considerably. I have used and like Het motors. They have motors with 8mm shafts to work with 90mm fans. As far as in-runner or out-runner I like in-runners for a 90mm fan set-up. The added factor of an out runner can running unbalanced with the rotor makes me avoid that set-up. Other fans I have considered for this plane are the Jet-fan 90 and the Lander 12 blade with the metal housing. Every different choice brings with it the price, weight and reliability considerations to chose from. That's where I am at now. Thankfully I continue to follow this thread and others to learn from peoples first hand experience with their setups. If money was never a consideration than I guess that would make things a lot easier, but much less fun.

There are other threads here on RCG about this plane and all the other fan motor combinations I have discussed here. If you do your homework I am sure you will end up with something you think is best for you. With all the choices we have in modeling these days Its always a bit of an experiment. Unknown QC factors can come in to play from any manufacture. Those are the variables. The best we can do is take the plunge and than contribute back to the community with our results, such as Herb has done so well with this thread. Stay in the loop. Keep us posted on your thoughts. I will do the same.

Dean
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:48 PM
Mach One
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Joined Apr 2011
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Thank You

Dean,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it very much. Yes, as you guessed it, I am reseaching the same things you are, but I am probably not as experienced as you with respect to planes. I started my RC experience with helicopters, and thus know all the manufacturers and suppliers for helis much better than fixed wing aircraft. So when I read the likes of HET, WEMOTEC, CS and etc I am slightly in the dark and have to go back and search for them online. I take it that HET is a respectable brand in the EDF world since I have read many people using their products. However, I also see that Turnigy has EDF fans and motors for 90mm units as well. My experience with Turnigy motors has been excellent on the heli side, so I mahy buy one of their 36mm diameter motors for this EDF and fit it on a CS90 or some other fan assembly. Anyhow, I just wanted to thank you for replying and helping a new EDf pilot out :-) PS: I am in flight as I type..... on board a Super MD80.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 02:07 AM
Banzai Institute
buckaroo's Avatar
United States, NY, West Seneca
Joined Oct 2005
542 Posts
Capt'n its good to see someone transition into planes from heli's. I bet a lot of the fixed wing flyers of today started out that way. Heli's are so cool and so much easier to fly these days that its bringing more people into the hobby and that's a good thing.

In the larger EDF world of today the big change is the advent of higher blade counts on the rotor and stator vanes. This seems to produce a more jet like sound in flight due to the fact that you hear more air through the airframe than motor or fan noise. It contributes to that woosh sound and a much quieter setup. That's a general statement. The internal ducting and balance of the motor/rotor also play a big part in the sound. I have heard some 5 and 6 blade 90mm fans that make the woosh. It could be the particular inlet ducts of a given airframe. But over all in the 90mm size the 9-12 blade rotors are making a better jet sound. The price to pay for that is a little less efficiency. You could expect to see the higher blade count fans eat more watts for the same thrust levels as compared to say a 6 blade Midi fan, which really has been the proven standard for 90mm fans. For this plane I chose the woosh. Its too early to say there is a clear winner of the fans that make woosh, but here is a short list of the ones I am following.

Jet fan 90:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t#post21877610

Changesun 90mm 12 blade:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...20120&page=132

RC Lander 90mm 12 blade metal housing (as sold by Hobbyking)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712422

Mercury alloy 90 mm 12 blade
(interesting new design, pusher, IGV (Inlet Guide Vane) 3rd bearing in housing)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=mercuri+90mm

Also check out Extreme radio Control. He is heavy into EDF and makes beautiful metal housings and ready to run setups for many of the new multi. rotor fans and also the proven Wemo. There is also a wealth of testing information on his site.
http://www.extremerc.com.au/estore/

As for motors, I like the Turnigys. I have many of them but they are all out-runners. As I said earlier I like in-runners for the 90mm fans. Most of these setups are going to turn well over 30K and for that reason I avoid 5mm shafts and out-runner cans. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. Many people are running successful out-runner setups with 5mm shafts. Just about every Turnigy motor that you could ever use has been tested in the CS 90 thread. Their SK3 Fandrives seem to be a good 6s option.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...90mm_EDF_.html

My favorite in-runners are the HET motors. They are proven in the EDF world to safely eat the watts we will make, have the proper cooling holes and come in many varieties of shaft size and Kv winds to match your setup. One other note of interest on the Het motors is they come without a flat ground on the end of the shaft. This is a plus in my opinion. Most of the cheap set screw type collets we are forced to use in 90mm fans do not like flats on shafts. Many guys fill them in with JB weld to avoid the run-out problems at high RPM's associated with cheap set screw collets. The one change I would like to see is more manufactures switch to quality stainless clamp type collets for these fans. I think it would eliminate many of the dangerous consequences of putting 4-5 HP through a 30 cent piece of aluminum. I am testing an Het 800 series motor in a 6" Byron fan using a quality 8mm stainless steel collect from TruTurn and at over 6HP its a rock solid setup. It really makes a difference. Here is the HET site.
http://www.highendrc.com/index_topic...18&didpath=/18

Hope you had a good flight Capt'n. Airliners are such beautiful machines. If you are like me it makes you want to come home and build something. Make sure to keep us posted when you get the new Albatross.

Dean
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 10:14 AM
chillax! It's only a Hobby
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United States, CA, Millbrae
Joined Apr 2011
432 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckaroo View Post
Capt'n its good to see someone transition into planes from heli's. I bet a lot of the fixed wing flyers of today started out that way. Heli's are so cool and so much easier to fly these days that its bringing more people into the hobby and that's a good thing.

In the larger EDF world of today the big change is the advent of higher blade counts on the rotor and stator vanes. This seems to produce a more jet like sound in flight due to the fact that you hear more air through the airframe than motor or fan noise. It contributes to that woosh sound and a much quieter setup. That's a general statement. The internal ducting and balance of the motor/rotor also play a big part in the sound. I have heard some 5 and 6 blade 90mm fans that make the woosh. It could be the particular inlet ducts of a given airframe. But over all in the 90mm size the 9-12 blade rotors are making a better jet sound. The price to pay for that is a little less efficiency. You could expect to see the higher blade count fans eat more watts for the same thrust levels as compared to say a 6 blade Midi fan, which really has been the proven standard for 90mm fans. For this plane I chose the woosh. Its too early to say there is a clear winner of the fans that make woosh, but here is a short list of the ones I am following.

Jet fan 90:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t#post21877610

Changesun 90mm 12 blade:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...20120&page=132

RC Lander 90mm 12 blade metal housing (as sold by Hobbyking)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712422

Mercury alloy 90 mm 12 blade
(interesting new design, pusher, IGV (Inlet Guide Vane) 3rd bearing in housing)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=mercuri+90mm

Also check out Extreme radio Control. He is heavy into EDF and makes beautiful metal housings and ready to run setups for many of the new multi. rotor fans and also the proven Wemo. There is also a wealth of testing information on his site.
http://www.extremerc.com.au/estore/

As for motors, I like the Turnigys. I have many of them but they are all out-runners. As I said earlier I like in-runners for the 90mm fans. Most of these setups are going to turn well over 30K and for that reason I avoid 5mm shafts and out-runner cans. Keep in mind that this is just my opinion. Many people are running successful out-runner setups with 5mm shafts. Just about every Turnigy motor that you could ever use has been tested in the CS 90 thread. Their SK3 Fandrives seem to be a good 6s option.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...90mm_EDF_.html

My favorite in-runners are the HET motors. They are proven in the EDF world to safely eat the watts we will make, have the proper cooling holes and come in many varieties of shaft size and Kv winds to match your setup. One other note of interest on the Het motors is they come without a flat ground on the end of the shaft. This is a plus in my opinion. Most of the cheap set screw type collets we are forced to use in 90mm fans do not like flats on shafts. Many guys fill them in with JB weld to avoid the run-out problems at high RPM's associated with cheap set screw collets. The one change I would like to see is more manufactures switch to quality stainless clamp type collets for these fans. I think it would eliminate many of the dangerous consequences of putting 4-5 HP through a 30 cent piece of aluminum. I am testing an Het 800 series motor in a 6" Byron fan using a quality 8mm stainless steel collect from TruTurn and at over 6HP its a rock solid setup. It really makes a difference. Here is the HET site.
http://www.highendrc.com/index_topic...18&didpath=/18

Hope you had a good flight Capt'n. Airliners are such beautiful machines. If you are like me it makes you want to come home and build something. Make sure to keep us posted when you get the new Albatross.

Dean
Buckaroo
You ready did your homework
Capt'n got some work to do now! to see where he will go with this JET thing
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 10:46 AM
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United States, TX, Cedar Creek
Joined Nov 2011
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My L-39 arrived yesterday. I must say that it arrived from Nitro-Planes double boxed and in good shape. UPS did a good job as well and the box was clearly labeled as Fragile. I removed some of the pieces for inspection and am really pleased with how it looks.
It will be a while till I collect all the pieces to complete it. Thanks for the links Dean, I am really exploring every option in fan units to keep it as lite as possible. High thrust and low weight are what I'm shooting for instead of the "whoosh" sound.
With the HET fan and the SK3 Fandrive I can keep the weight down pretty significantly, I'll just have to wait till wifey gives me the okay to get a real turbine for the whoosh!

a few pics...
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 11:20 AM
Banzai Institute
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United States, NY, West Seneca
Joined Oct 2005
542 Posts
Nice Redbiscuits, Its good to hear Nitro's got the shipping thing down. Thats where I prefer to get mine from too. Mostly because I like the color scheme better than the HK version. I have too much darn stuff on the bench now but I know this Albatross is in my future. I like your choice for a nice lite setup. Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Dean
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 05:35 AM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSI View Post
...Yeah, the delimna....to 6s or not to 6s?
I would love to go with 8s....I have plenty of lipos to make that work, but...if I do it would be using than new Lander metal fan with the installed 1250kv motor. It is almost 2/3 more the weight of the Wemo. ...Ken
Hi All,

The L-39 is a bit heavier and larger than the CMP T-45 / Hawk. The latter flies fine with a 6S setup (1800-200W). The L-39 needs more power, ca 2500W.

Simple arithmetic gives 2500W/ 20V = 125A which is a bit high. On 8S you get 90A or so, which is more reasonable.

Just keep it LIGHT and use a quality fan, not one of those lander paperweights. There are many good LIGHTweight efficient quality fans out there, WeMo, HET, CS-5bl, jetfan etc.

On 8S the motor kv for those fans needs to be in the 1500 region. The HET 650 motors are a very good dependable choice, but there are many other suitable edf inrunners (tenshock, leopard, neu, sk3, etc).

The SK3 1600kv with the WeMo or CS-5bl with one of those very dependable YEP or Hobbywing (K-force) esc looks like a particularly attractive (pricewise) 7S-8S setup.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 05:42 AM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
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Btw, if you append "&pp=100" to the url of this thread, you get to see 100 posts
one one page, which makes viewing immensely easier

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1581816&pp=100
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 11:31 AM
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Joined May 2009
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Hi Herb (and others!)

I'll ask for some advice, like many others who follow your great build threads.

I was in the middle of building the CMP T-45, using your Wemotec midi pro with the Turnigy 3659 1900 Kv setup you used in your second T-45. One of my clubmates recently came with a new-in-the-box HK L-59 (the white version) with all the goodies to sell--airframe (undamaged!), HK pilots, RCL metal electric retracts (LMEG-45), CS 12 blade fan with TACON 3674-1700Kv motor. Couldn't resist the great price so now I'm two deep into the wallet.

Still being really new at determiniing good combinations, in your opinion, would the Wemotec setup be usable in the L-59, should I use the CS fan combo, or should I modify the Wemotec with something else to move up to 8S for the L-59?

I have seen that you've compared the two planes and the L59 is slightly heavier, and probably warrants at least an 8S. Others flying 6S on it all seem to want more power. Plus I'm concerned about the weight/balance issue--the Wemotec setup, with motor, is 12.2 oz. The CS setup with motor is 18.1oz.

Thanks for your help--your threads are invaluable to us newbies!
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 12:34 AM
Mach One
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Joined Apr 2011
2,180 Posts
I received my L-59 from HK. It was doublle boxed and I had no damages. I thank you guys for you posts with all the excellent advise and recommendations. I will be buying the electronics for the plane now but before ordering I will let you know.

Thanks again
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Question for 6S-5xxx Setup Users:

Where about will be battery position approximately ?
Can you pls post a picture with the battery in "flight" position ?
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 12:36 AM
Mach One
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Joined Apr 2011
2,180 Posts
Guys,
I bought 4 Turnigy 1900kv Fandtive motors a while ago and planned on using one for my L-59. Now reading the thread it appears that an 8S setup is preferred. Can I use my 1900kv motor and 100A ESC on 8S or do I need 1500kv? i am looking at 90mm HET, WeMoTec or CS12 ( as sold my scale flying) fan units) .

Now, how different really is 8S to 6S? Which do you recommend and why?

Thank you in advance. I am looking forward to ordering my electronics ASAP ad any help is appreciated.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:04 AM
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United States, TX, Cedar Creek
Joined Nov 2011
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I thought it was noteworthy to share this.
I bought my L-39 from Nitro Planes on cyber Monday for $194.00 shipped. I guess on Wednesday of that week Nitro introduces a 10% off sale across the board on the entire website. Just my luck, right?
Well, I emailed Nitro with my order# and explained that I was disappointed that I ordered right before the 10% off sale. Within two days they replied saying they would credit my Paypal account with the 10% difference, and yesterday evening there was an extra $16.00 bucks sitting in my account.
Way to go Nitro-Planes! This is something that they didn't "have" to do, but it was the right thing to do, and it made me a happy camper. So, I thought I would share that.
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