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Old Jan 19, 2012, 10:55 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
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Hi Ray,

Can't wait to see what you and Igor come up with from that slab (yes, slab) of foam. You could make a pretty large "FlyingW" with 8x4 of material.

I like your idea of taking the existing one-sheet foam concept, and finding the only true way of making it more fun - making it bigger.

I suppose with that minivan you don't have to figure out how to break the airframe down into pieces for transport.

Paul
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 01:51 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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As one who owns some sheets of foam and is also an inherent tightwad, one awaits progress on this project with nearly bated breath.

Could the mystery of the missing Igor be solved, meanwhile ?

D
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 10:49 PM
volare est vivere
ray foley's Avatar
United States, OH, Toledo
Joined Jan 2005
1,999 Posts
hi there from Toledo

I got the foam slab (hi, Paul) down the stairs and into the laboratory in the dungeon with some help from #1son. Fortunately the 1/2" light green foam is fairly flexible and negotiated the tight spots reasonably well. Now If I can find Igor to clean up the Laboratory, we can make some progess.

Fuse Abuse:

So what shall we do? I was thinking about a double thickness fuselage for a 1" thick fat profile or perhaps bulge out the front from the firewall to the wing TE to make some interior space for gear and batteries (so nothing is hanging out in the breeze) and then making a transition to profile aft of the wing; with a hatch for easy access to the hidden stuff...hmmm. The linkages for the rudder and elevators could run in grooves in the foam right along the interior seam line.

Well we want enough side area so knife edge flight comes easily without any nasty pulling tendencies, and so the area must be fairly equally apportioned about the thrust line. So maybe a profile not unlike the Ucando 3d airplanes with a nice turtle deck and smooth transition to the Vstab and rudder. So the wing will need to be reasonably close to the thrust line.

The overall length again in the 60" range, maybe about 6" or 7" tall with appropriate tapers and swoops here and there for aerodynamic perfection, uh...aesthetic qualities, uh...just cuz I like it, yeah probably so, if truth be told.

ciao -rjf

ps: Larry, Sketches etc as soon as we come to a concensus about the design. Kibitz on! -rjf
pps: Springer, yeah some taper to the wing, yeah. -rjf
ppps: Dereck, I didn't know Igor had a van. -rjf
pppps: FlyingW, Plan ahead for the Neat Fair, will you?! -rjf

Igor! Wo sind sie?
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:10 PM
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ray foley's Avatar
United States, OH, Toledo
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Master? Is that you?
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:26 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
You sure your Igor isn't related to the Igors in Terry Pratchett's 'Discworld' books? They all look much the same...

Like your idea of a swollen nose (?) to put the RC gear inside. Never could take servos hanging out in the breeze - it shows off that I can't afford expensive digital servos described by many acronyms.

D
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 02:34 PM
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ray foley's Avatar
United States, OH, Toledo
Joined Jan 2005
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hi there from Toledo

Wings and things:

So let's see, the wing root chord will be 14" including the ailerons, the tip chord will be 12", the span will be 72" with a fully symmetrical airfoil. A few years ago I had several UCD 40 that electrocuted successfully, and at one point due to the earth reaching up and snatching my UCD40 from the air, I was able to accurately measure and CAD the airfoil section. So while mucking about with the esoteric CAD curve fitting functions I discovered that the airfoil was actually composed of an elliptical front section and tangential straight lines back to the hinge line, the flat plate monsterous ailerons were then attached via CA hinges. Hmmm.

Well, I got to fiddling around with the CAD and 1/2" slabs and well...lo and behold with some gluing and sanding and creative spar forming an elliptical/tangential airfoil can be fairly easily fashioned from foam slabs, Neat!!!.

Now i just have to figure out how to get the sketches from CAD and into RCG. Another challenge, oh Dear!

ciao -rjf

ps: Dereck, I received no less than 4 of Pratchett's prattlings as presents this past yuletide (oooh how alliterative or is that illiterative). Always a good diversion for sure. And now Igor has been outted as it were, Good show! -rjf

Igor? Talk to me, Igor!?
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 11:08 AM
Visitor from Reality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray foley View Post
hi there from Toledo


ciao -rjf

ps: Dereck, I received no less than 4 of Pratchett's prattlings as presents this past yuletide (oooh how alliterative or is that illiterative). Always a good diversion for sure. And now Igor has been outted as it were, Good show! -rjf

Igor? Talk to me, Igor!?
As long as you don't get an Igorina instead

D
Who, surprise, has every one of TP's books...
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 10:00 PM
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ray foley's Avatar
United States, OH, Toledo
Joined Jan 2005
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hi there from Toledo

I was working in the lab just this evening trying out some wing construction techniques that I had sketched up in CAD. There were two promising techniques, the first required that the two 1/2" foam slabs 11" wide and 36" long bend around the 3/4" sq pine spar and be trimmed and glued to the spar, and to the 1/2 by 1/2 balsa hinge stick and to the the LE 3/4 by 1/2 balsa LE stick. The second possibility was four flat foam slabs, two 5 by 36" and two 6" by 36" slabs sanded and glued together at the 1/2 by 1/2 balsa hinge stick and the LE 3/4 by 1/2 balsa LE stick and then to the spar.

Well the 1/2" foam slabs dont bend well enough to be formed around the spar and then be glued as mentioned above. In fairness you could bend them but the residual stress induced by the bending and gluing (if you could keep everything in place and weighted down during the set up of the glue) would probably cause the foam to fail in shear along the glue joints and most likely at the worst possible time, such as during a snap roll or other high Gee maneouver. So that doesn't seem very promising so...

I made up some 5 by 4" slabs and some 6 by 4" slabs and with some balsa scraps I was able to mock up the airfoil. This required some sanding of the slabs at the hinge end and there are some gaps that appropriate sanding will eliminate. So I ended up with a shape that with a little sanding will be smooth enough to work acceptably, I hope. oh yeah, and no residual stresses like the first technique. White Gorilla glue will fill the gaps and be easy to sand to final shape. So tomorrow I will cut more foam slabs and work up the necessary wood jigs to make the wing structure. And some photos I promise.

The pine spar will be be reinforced in the center with aircraft ply to support the requisite dowel at the root for mounting the wing to the fuselage. There will also be an internal wooden brace for the wing mount bolts at the rear of the wing at the root and some external plywood to spread the forces as seems appropriate.

I enjoy the experimentation with assembly techniques that lead to an acceptable set of design parameters and hence a successfull model, God willing.

ciao -rjf

Mary, I thought I heard Igor, did you hear him/ her/ it?
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 05:10 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
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Ray,

Would love to see pictures of the techniques you describe. Whatever you're doing, it does sound fun.

I once got an aceptable airfoil shape from one inch blue foam by cutting spanwise slots about 3/4 through the depth of the foam near the spar area - where the tightest bend would be. I ended up making a wood built-up wing instead, but the foam certainly would have been quicker. I have to try that again someday.

I'm pretty sure that Igor would be unfazed by unconventional building methods.

Paul
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM
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Cedar Grove North Carolina
Joined Oct 2006
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wheres the beef?
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
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Went to Lowes this evening and saw their green foam sheets. Looked pretty good. Have some ideas for the one inch thick 4x8 (about $16).
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Grand Junction, Colorado
Joined Dec 2007
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Springer
You could do the plans so certain other of us could be standing comfortably out in the field and stare at the thing floating way up in the air this spring too.

Ray you got to learn to do the picture post thing... We love pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Cool, a new "syndrome" for foamie addicts: ASK, Allotropic Side Kibitzing! I love it!

Maybe the glider later in the spring when it gets closer to being able to comfortably stand out in the field and stare at the thing floating way up there in the sky. (just think how high one could get it and still see it with a 10 ft wing span - watch out all you guys from Romeo airport!) There's a 48" Swift somewhere buried in the hard drive that wants to be built before then, though.
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 10:28 PM
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SE MI
Joined Oct 2004
9,443 Posts
Larry: well, maybe in a fit of creative passion....after the next onesheeter, the OSS....

Yeah, Ray, where's the Pix? Did Igor steal the camera again?????
(sure is tough to get good help!)
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