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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:17 PM
Pompano Hill Flyers
Radian's Avatar
Coral Springs FL
Joined May 2002
682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
Wow Radian, that is a pretty obtuthe statement when you know nothing about what went into the decisions about this ship. And speaking of Samba, I have no reason to doubt that Samba has reasons, very good ones, why this was done. I guess when biplanes went to monoplanes you would have said, "not me, only one wing..."

And we wonder why we are like we are!
Marc
Hi Marc,
Maybe I need to elaborate more as you seem to feel I did not think my response through.

We all know that Samba has their good reasons for doing this. Otherwise they would not be marketing it.

I'm sure we can list several of these good reasons. But as we do so we also need to keep in mind that any soaring plane design is a concession to compromise.

Let's quickly list some good reasons "why" for a 2 piece wing that I'm sure we can all more or less agree with:

Pros:
Less parts to mfg and inventory.
Less labor to mfg.
Weight distribution more "centered" to improve moment of inertia response in all axis.
Easier to put a ballast box in that runs along the"tip to tip" axis to improve the planes moment of inertia response about the pitch axis when ballasted.

Cons:
Heavier overall for same "strength"
More difficult to transport
More fore and aft flexibility necessitates the spar being stronger (heavier) in this axis.
Manufacturing scrap costs "can" be higher. (scrap a panel, loose 1/2 a wing)

If we consider a 3 piece wing:
Pros:
Lighter overall weight for same strength
Easier transport.
More potential to market "improvement parts" later in the product's life. (can we say extended tips? or "Heavier/stronger center panel for high wind launching?)

Cons
More difficult to design with ballast box in wing.
More parts to produce and inventory.
More "work" involved in manufacturing.

As a customer, I would prefer my concessions to compromise towards lighter overall for the same strength and easier to transport. I like also to know that if I damage a panel to the point of replacement, it should be less costly to buy a smaller panel then 1/2 the wing.

I'm sure many will appreciate this new Samba product and it will no doubt be a fine plane. I really like the looks of it and I think the design points of the fuselage look very good. I just am not in the market for any 3.4+ meter plane with two piece wings. I will have to continue to be happy with my Pike Perfect.

Thanks.

Radian
www.phflyers.com
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 06:32 PM
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jojoen's Avatar
Norway
Joined Dec 2003
1,472 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radian View Post
Hi Marc,
Maybe I need to elaborate more as you seem to feel I did not think my response through.

........
Cons:
Heavier overall for same "strength"
.......
More fore and aft flexibility necessitates the spar being stronger (heavier) in this axis.
.......
If we consider a 3 piece wing:
Pros:
Lighter overall weight for same strength
....
www.phflyers.com
This is wrong.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:24 PM
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stefanoc2's Avatar
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Aug 2006
453 Posts
Bob,
it is exciting to see a new F3J model from Samba.
The Pike Perfect has been and is a great model and I am looking forward to see how the Perfection will measure up.

Thank you for bringing it to us. Now you have me curious as to what is the third mystery model coming to the 2012 lineup.

Stefano
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:45 PM
building season is here.
seaspb's Avatar
United States, OR, Silverton
Joined Nov 2008
937 Posts
I think Radian is right if he is referring old materials and methods, but with today's hm resins and new weaves it just doesn't pan out that way. Not to mention every joint has the potential as a weak point. Low parts count modular designs is the was to go for light and strength.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:55 PM
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kilwein's Avatar
Joined Jan 2007
651 Posts
Frozen finger fly-in anyone?

Crap, everytime I buy something new, a newer one gets released shortly after.
It is nice they are improving current and bringing new planes to the market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
I mean seriously, who flies in SNOW??
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:16 PM
Build A Rocket Boys!
PDX Slope Pilot's Avatar
Portland, Oregon
Joined May 2002
4,055 Posts
How about ease of assembly at the field as a pro for 2-piece wings? I much prefer 2-piece wings for that very reason. Nice model Bob. Thanks for making it available to us!
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:28 PM
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wakumann's Avatar
Canada
Joined Jul 2003
2,528 Posts
Oh man

Pilebucks fleet will be soon so outdated, almost as bad as mine.

Quote:
I just am not in the market for any 3.4+ meter plane with two piece wings. I will have to continue to be happy with my Pike Perfect.
Radian,
good for you

personally 2 pc or 3 pc wing, I really don't care as long as it flys well.

Cheers
Thomas
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 08:44 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,764 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX Slope Pilot View Post
How about ease of assembly at the field as a pro for 2-piece wings? I much prefer 2-piece wings for that very reason. Nice model Bob. Thanks for making it available to us!
+1.....

It is apparent to me after toting F3B planes with TD planes that the MOST convenient beast would be one with a 2 panel wing and a full flying stab that requires no tools to assemble.


I'm interested in trying a Perfection.

R,
Target
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 02:50 AM
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lesterpk's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Oct 2003
902 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
+1.....
and a full flying stab that requires no tools to assemble.

I'm interested in trying a Perfection.

R,
Target
Pretty sure from the pics seen on facebook this morning, the Perfection has a fixed stab and moving elevator ala Prestige.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 07:35 AM
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jojoen's Avatar
Norway
Joined Dec 2003
1,472 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterpk View Post
Pretty sure from the pics seen on facebook this morning, the Perfection has a fixed stab and moving elevator ala Prestige.
That is correct.
Btw building technique is much like the precision F3B/F with stronger fuse and also wing/elevator/rudder is made with the new 40g spread tow.

They are out flying as I write this. It is raining but they had to fly...


Jojo
www.jojoen.no
www.f3j.com
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 08:07 AM
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R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,575 Posts
Thaks Jo Jo for the explanation of the design philosophy on the two piece wing, glad someone leaves the box every now and again!

Marc
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 08:42 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,739 Posts
Looks awesome... I love my perfect, I'm sure this is even better...

but I agree with Radian: It's out for me. Won't fit in wing bags, airline travel is impossible, etc. Heck, even my perfect is tough to get in my Subaru wagon because of the length of the fuse.

I can't wait to see one here in the US. I got a chance to see one of the F3B versions and it was beautiful.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 09:43 AM
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Larry Jolly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2003
1,899 Posts
JoJo,

Please explain why you prefer this layout over the route chosen by Philip and Bemjamin???
The model loks like a a 2 piece wing Prestige , with Perfect sections...
How do you see this as an improvement to Perfect, as you can already get a Perfect in this weight range?
Will you fly it in Cyprus?????
Good luck with the new toy.
LJ
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 10:24 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,764 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesterpk View Post
Pretty sure from the pics seen on facebook this morning, the Perfection has a fixed stab and moving elevator ala Prestige.
That works as well.... Its not ideal for me, but it's close I suppose.
Thank you for the heads up.

R,
Target
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Phil Davy's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Apr 2007
1,080 Posts
Nice!

What a beauty! I like two piece wings!
Awesome Bob!
Phil
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