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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Bellevue Wa
Joined May 2007
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Any flight reports? I'm thinking of ordering one. Thanks.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuomo View Post
Be extra careful with naked carbon wings. The less there is paint, and the darker the color is, the more care you must take. You can destroy any wing by leaving it to hot sun for a long period.

Years back our planes came with thin glass on carbon (or they were glass structure). And the color were mostly white (or anyway not very dark). And there was thicker layer of paint... All this gave protection to sunlight.
Samba make my planes in all yellow with black & white flashes at the tips. When we used to get sun in the UK, the yellow gets slightly warm to touch, the white stays cool and the black gets scorching hot. Therefore I always use the supplied wing covers in all but cool cloudy conditions.

At the 2005 F3j European championships in Croatia, my team mate had a white top/black underside plane. He propped it up against the tent, the wind blew it over, and the black underside was left exposed to the 35 degrees sun for over an hour. The tip melted and warped and the plane was unflyable.

As for Perfection flight reports? Yes they go exceptionally well. Handling is very sweet and they feel very light to fly like a smaller plane. The only limiting factor will be the pilot
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 06:38 AM
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Finland, Klaukkala
Joined Sep 2011
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Hi! One my friend ordered perfection,delivery was 2months late and I almoust dropped to my ass about total price including ballasts,wingbags ect+ shipping to finland,1700euros! Too expensive for my flying style,sometimes have to take big risks like last weekend finnish champs :-) Really nice plane anyway!
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 03:26 PM
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United States, CA, Visalia
Joined Oct 2004
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I flew my SL ST perfection in its first contest yesterday and finished 2. The plane handles real will with a cg around 110. I did pull off several low saves at maybe 30 feet or less. It flies real nice. Samba has done a great job.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 06:17 AM
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Norway
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Originally Posted by janne savolainen View Post
Hi! One my friend ordered perfection,delivery was 2months late and I almoust dropped to my ass about total price including ballasts,wingbags ect+ shipping to finland,1700euros! Too expensive for my flying style,sometimes have to take big risks like last weekend finnish champs :-) Really nice plane anyway!
I guess you did not order standard model but spread tow 40 or double carbon etc.?....
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 06:52 AM
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United States, AZ, Buckeye
Joined Mar 2010
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I like my pike perfect et sl soooo soooo much that i think this is probably the way im going to go in the near future. Spread tow of course.

Joe
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 07:02 AM
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Finland, Klaukkala
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My friend ordered standart spread tow model.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:14 AM
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Spread tow is extra 130EUR + vat (so about 156eur if you live inside EC) and I see no reason for ordering that. It is strong enough for anything in standard version. Spread tow 40 is another thing for saving weight...
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jojoen View Post
Spread tow is extra 130EUR + vat (so about 156eur if you live inside EC) and I see no reason for ordering that. It is strong enough for anything in standard version. Spread tow 40 is another thing for saving weight...
Yes. Standard carbon 68 has proven very stiff and is also the cheapest version.

Superlight uses a small amount of carbon 68 at the wing roots then quickly changes to Vladimirs 40g spread tow material for the rest of the wing. Very nice and very light.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
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United States, AZ, Buckeye
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I fly a super light right now and think my next model will be a sl i like the way they fly.

Joe
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 12:46 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
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Originally Posted by Neil Jones View Post
Yes. Standard carbon 68 has proven very stiff and is also the cheapest version.

Superlight uses a small amount of carbon 68 at the wing roots then quickly changes to Vladimirs 40g spread tow material for the rest of the wing. Very nice and very light.
What is the weight difference between C68 -> ST80 -> ST40? How much real need there is for ST 40 and what are its limitations? ST80 is already nice and light...

Regarding price, I know manufacturers have to live and techmolygy is advancing, but it is not good for the sport if planes cost 1500e or more. Since now F3J has been comparatively economical FAI class but I see things slowly slip out of hands. First we had 750e planes, then 1000e was the norm, after that 1250e... I do not want to see F3B prices coming into F3J.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuomo View Post
What is the weight difference between C68 -> ST80 -> ST40? How much real need there is for ST 40 and what are its limitations? ST80 is already nice and light...

Regarding price, I know manufacturers have to live and techmolygy is advancing, but it is not good for the sport if planes cost 1500e or more. Since now F3J has been comparatively economical FAI class but I see things slowly slip out of hands. First we had 750e planes, then 1000e was the norm, after that 1250e... I do not want to see F3B prices coming into F3J.
I only have carbon 68's and a ST40 Superlight. Jojo can tell you more about other weights. I think Jojo's ST80 with no paint is also around 2kg so with normal paint scheme i would think around 2.1kg?

Both my carbon 68's are around 2kg. The ST40 Superlight is 1775g but this is with a full strength fuselage for hard landings on hard ground in South Africa. The wings on the Superlight are 100g lighter each. This saves 200g over a normal model and the joiner is about 25g lighter. It is not as stiff in torsion or bending as a normal model so it's limited to lighter winds and dead air slots.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 01:50 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
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Sounds like C68 is still a good lamination for the allround plane. 2kg is nice weight. And if you have one ST40 you are ready for everything.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Norway
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Beware I am not a dealer anymore so prices might have changed last months.

The price is not F3B yet. Prices deppend on if one need all the other gadgets, where you live according to VAT and how much postage there will be. It is also possible to get models delivered at competitions. And they still make Perfect's that are about 100eur cheaper I think and that is still a very potent model. The Perfection spar and various parts is made with more expensive materials than the Perfect and a step forward. So the price raise is not that bad considering.
ST (spread tow) and weights are many times missunderstood. ST 80 is normally heavier than C68 but also stronger. Though C68 is strong enough for almost anything when Samba makes them. ST40 is the lighter one. Then they can make any combination and they do make that for some (mostly LS that is LightStrong).
One can not take a model from one company with same outer fabric and compare with a model from another company... Samba refuses to make models that might not hold up for what they are intended. Lets say you live in Austalia and launch with15mohm F3B winches with 200m line. Or you live in USA and only fly TD from TD winches and tap all the way because of line break rules. One of these need to be told they need double carbon models while the other might have a blast with the lightest there is to make (maybe even a F5J version).
It is also a fact that the airfoil/span on the Perfection can take more weight than some other designs out there. So a model on 2000g is considered very light.

So in summary the C68 of the Perfection is the cheapest and will take almost anything thrown at it yet still a very light model.
I have a ST80 that is 2050g but was thinking a C68 but did some work for them so got a ST80. I have also a ST40 model (1790g)and I have not yet flown well with it because it flies too slow to my flying style (basically not covering enough ground maybe). I insisted on having one of those though Samba knew well I only needed a medium version. But I was thinking morning South Africa at the time. Probably I might not even take it out of the box.

BTW I think the only dealer with Samba models in stock now and then is soaringusa

lets finish of with a nice picture at my mountain field (high altitude training for SA

Jojo
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Joined Nov 2005
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Hey JoJo, how different is the airfoil on the Perfection vs. Perfect?

Marc

Hope all is well, miss ya over here!
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