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Old Jul 16, 2012, 03:48 PM
Better then Sliced Bread!
NorCalMatCat's Avatar
United States, CA, Arcata
Joined Oct 2011
2,650 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by geotete View Post
Hello everybody,

From this weekend I took a conclusion:
I have a problem!
Done the reset in the bench several times and also the memory for the stabilization, but the red led keeps flashing, let me explain:
I have done on the bench the procedure to memorize the plane ABM, and notice before and after that, that the red LED was flashing, so I ignore the memory for the ABM and deal only with the red LED.
I lost the count for how many times I did the gyro reset, I followed the manual waited for the rapid flash in the blue and red LED's and always with a total of 20 seconds or more disconnected the power and removed the jumper. When I connected the power again I had the solid blue and the flashing red...
Because I didn't want to loose the best of the day, I did another time, the procedure to memorize the ABM in the bench and the gyro reset, and I did take off in RC mode.
3 mistakes up in the sky I switched the plane to ABM and surprise a nose dive at an amazing speed, between the "expensive words" that I said and switch back to RC, my bixler with 4,40 Lbs was at 5 feet off the ground, but I was able to gain control and up he went in a vertical path!
Initially I was thinking that this was because the way that I take off, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m74T8Ut7TxE&feature=plcpthat was possible to be affecting the gyros for the rest of the flight, but I always take off in RC mode and the plane flies great with minimal input!
So, last week I had the same configuration banking to the right, now I have in a strait dive... the red keeps flashing, why?

All the best,

Geotete
For starters your not supposed to reset the gyro that much, it should only be done when absolutely necessary....

Sounds to me like a bad unit, I am going to assume you have ruled out all issues like vibration, etc etc?
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 08:15 PM
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czorzella's Avatar
United States, FL, Kissimmee
Joined Jan 2012
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Geotete,

IMO you should try to move the FY-31AP closer to the CG which in your case should be something between 60 and 70mm from the wing leading edge.

In my case, I've opened an access hatch under the wing right on the fuselage belly to make it easier to adjust settings and maneuver the cables. It is working fine. As for the vibration pads, make sure you put only four small pads at the corners instead of placing a single pad under the bottom of FY-31AP.

Good luck.

Carlos

Quote:
Originally Posted by geotete View Post
Thanks everybody,

I'm using the latest firmware and already done the reset, more than once, to the firmware and to the gyros. What I don't understand is, if it is so easy for the FY-30A, why not for the FY-31AP?
The led's are working OK without any error.
Gains are a 15% to 20% from the neutral, not at maximum.
I did start to record the neutral on the bench and after the erratic flight I tried in the air.
The unit is in the middle of the plane and the arrow is pointing forward, as you can check by the images.
For dampening the vibrations I'm using one layer of this and on top another of this, so I have the vibrations controlled. Check the image.
I will give another try this weekend and will have in consideration all the comments.
Thanks,

Geotete
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:06 PM
Registered User
Banff Alberta Canada
Joined Nov 2004
569 Posts
contaminated gain pots

I think that maybe your gain pots may be contaminated with that circuit board coating. I'm planning on cheching out my pots using an oscilloscope when I can get a chance.
Noisy pots would give very erratic stability characteristics .
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 02:03 AM
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saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,101 Posts
yes this is definatly worth checking... good idea.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
Do you have the ability to check your error count in the air per chance? Like with the OSd or on the gcs?

I wonder if it's vibration related

Maybe some photos of the install?
The photos are attached to this post.
About the vibration when I made the initial tests in the bench, with the unit and various % of throttle never had the red LED flashing.
This is the video from that day:
FY31AP Almost Crash (0 min 32 sec)


Please watch in full screen, because I asked a friend to record from the ground station screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalMatCat View Post
For starters your not supposed to reset the gyro that much, it should only be done when absolutely necessary....

Sounds to me like a bad unit, I am going to assume you have ruled out all issues like vibration, etc etc?
I just done all this resets because the led was always flashing after the reboot. With my FY-30A unit I think that I did 3 times in a year!
And yes, I'm also starting to think like that, I have a faulty unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by czorzella View Post
Geotete,

IMO you should try to move the FY-31AP closer to the CG which in your case should be something between 60 and 70mm from the wing leading edge.

In my case, I've opened an access hatch under the wing right on the fuselage belly to make it easier to adjust settings and maneuver the cables. It is working fine. As for the vibration pads, make sure you put only four small pads at the corners instead of placing a single pad under the bottom of FY-31AP.

Good luck.

Carlos
I can't do that surgery because my RX is in the back of the tail and all the wires are on the path between the pod and the RX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry baraniuk View Post
I think that maybe your gain pots may be contaminated with that circuit board coating. I'm planning on cheching out my pots using an oscilloscope when I can get a chance.
Noisy pots would give very erratic stability characteristics .
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
yes this is definatly worth checking... good idea.
Yes, the idea isn't bad but I don't have the resources and I don't want to loose the warranty. Also, with a BIG magnifying lenses I didn't detect anything abnormal.

About the warranty it's better go with the manufacture or the dealer?

All the best,

Geotete
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Banff Alberta Canada
Joined Nov 2004
569 Posts
Nice Posting!
I like seeing videos and pictures. It looked like the plane went into a smooth dive.
I agree with others that recommend to put the FY 31-AP at the Center of Gravity location (whatever it takes to do so) which is unfortunate because it looks real nice
where it is.
If you tried different % of throttle on the ground and noticed normal operation of the
ailerons and elevator while in stabilized flight mode then you might not have issues with noisy pots.
Seriously consider putting the FY- 31 at CG and try it out and if it still acts up then try flying with your telemetry transmitter off and see if it is the trouble maker.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 03:20 PM
Better then Sliced Bread!
NorCalMatCat's Avatar
United States, CA, Arcata
Joined Oct 2011
2,650 Posts
Oh yeah, looking at the location of it it is clearly too far forward of CG, the AP should be centered on CG as close as possible, and not just for/aft but as close to center of all 3 axis as possible.

Also if that is real CF it could cause issues too possibly.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 04:27 PM
uavservices on MRF
saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
5,101 Posts
I just cant see it causeing a steep dive if off c of g... yeah maybe you will have some bobbing etc but not a continuous dive...

the CF worries me a bit... I am only now beginning to belive in how conductive CF is...

were your pots sticky? this was a good suggestion that possibly the sticky pots could cause some serious issues....

all that being said... I think you should send it back.

Steve
ps nice install sorry she is not flying
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
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United States, FL, Kissimmee
Joined Jan 2012
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Geotete,


I've extracted the following quotes from the user manual; IMO, the GPS module is giving erratic readings to the FY-31AP which relies on that information to Autopilot Modes. There is an enormous chance that if you adjust the location of your FY-31AP all issues will be resolved.


"When installing, please keep the FY-31AP horizontal and as close as
possible to the "Centre of gravity" (COG) of the aircraft.(please refer to diagrams on the manual"

"DO NOT install the GPS Module next to metal or carbon fiber and other shielding material, which may block satellite signal."

"Install the GPS Module away from electromagnetic sources such as
ESCs, power wires, servo wires and video transmitters."


"GPS provides the aircraft geographic positioning, altitude, speed and
flight direction. Only if the GPS Data is available will the FY31AP perform its
Autopilot Modes."
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 05:43 PM
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Joined May 2006
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FY31 AP is not functioning. NO GPS INPUT!

Hi Geotete,

I just watched your video of your OSD overlay onto your video camera, 3 times.

At no time is the Autopilot function working.

There is no GPS speed active, there is no flight timer counting (speed must be greater than 5kmh to activate flight timer, No GPS altitude function, baro alt only.
Finally no. 1 clue, no GPS sattelite information, a big steady ZERO.

I would suggest to you, to save your precious time, money and effort that you remove the complete set up and mount it on a ply plate or cardboard box, power it up with osd and video enabled and walk around the garden, street or flying field at a speed greater than 5 kmh and video the result from your ground station again.

I hope this helps, as you have made a great set up, maybe too much carbon or a duff GPS, or a connection failure, but 100% no GPS input.

Cheers mate,

regards to all,

Al

EPS, have you extended the GPS connection to the FY31AP with the 'supplied' same colour cables and plugs? I believe there is a problem with that mentioned somewhere in this thread.
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Last edited by rotorheid; Jul 17, 2012 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Thought of something else.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Joined Mar 2011
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Hello everybody,

Since I don't have a LHS or anyone around to help, I really rely in the Internet, the forums, reviews and in the manual from the manufacture, I did reserched a LOT!
I have a DOSD in my skywalker with the FY30a so the experience with the fy30 was a big incentive to try the fy31.
So I read the manual more than once, and even today I read, again. I'm a sinner about the CG and also the GPS, but the placement of the fy31 unit isn't an invention of mine so I thought I sould give a try due to my layout choices. The GPS I thought that was only needed for the navigation, not for stabilization, this based in the fy30, but yes I didn't whaited for the GPS signal.
The pod isn't CF but FG and more than once I checked the conductivity and all the isolated connections. The pots are working freely since the beginning.
Rotorhied the cable was made by me and the one that came with the unit is inside the box, because I read a lot of bad experiences with tha original cable.
I will look again for the bixler belly with a blade in my hand but I think I don't have room for this operation...
I will not give up on this unit, because I only had great experiences with the fy30 and this unit is almost plug and play, but I honestly think that the bixler platform, that I have, is my biggest problem.
Many thanks for everybody and for each single suggestion!

All the best,

Geotete
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
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saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
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what a great attitidue you have... wish there were more like you and I wish I had your patience too

any chance you can try it in anohter air frame? but by the time you do all this it may be worth it to send it back.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:43 PM
Better then Sliced Bread!
NorCalMatCat's Avatar
United States, CA, Arcata
Joined Oct 2011
2,650 Posts
I fly my Bixler just fine with the FY31AP :P I attached some images to show how I have it all layed out.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:48 PM
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czorzella's Avatar
United States, FL, Kissimmee
Joined Jan 2012
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Geotete,

I'm also in the same boat as you. I live in Brazil and despite of the fact that this is a big country, you can't imagine how hard it is to find information and buy all the bells and whistles required to setup a nice FPV platform; not to mention all costs involved, at least FIVE times more when compared to prices in US.

I totally rely on the information provided by friends we meet in forums like RCG and FPVLAB, so having the chance to help others makes me happy.

Back to your issue: Don't give up on your Bixler yet. I'll get some photos of my own build to help you to rebuild yours.

Before making any modifications, I think you should follow the previous post suggestion to remove the whole electronics out of the plane and test it thoroughly; once you do that, you will surely identify the root cause of problem.

If the FY31AP proves to be ok, then you have a chance to reconsider opening the hatch and physically reallocate all your gear Inside the plane once again.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 03:36 AM
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Joined May 2006
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The way ahead, when you are on your own.

Hi Guys, Geotete,

You are correct Sir, without our like minded friends on the Internet and in the forums we would go around in circles having the same problems, looking for the solutions.
I work away from home, in the Persian Gulf region, and have no LHS to support my hobby, I make the best of what is available, materials, rc hobby products from on-line shops. I have one rc buddy nearby but depend mainly on the 'Guys' out there on the www. There are hundreds of them, from all around our planet, who help in many ways, thanks guys!
I marvel at their ideas, inventions and their solutions, sometimes just seeing some one else fix a problem like yours is enough to give you the confidence to fix yours, even if it means undoing a lot of work, and trying again.
I try real hard to get it right, but I still make mistakes, recently I mis-connected the RX output to the FY31: Aileron/rudder, I fly mode 2 because that's what I was brought up on, but what ever is my turn control function, either rudder or aileron has to be on my right stick. So I'm learning to set up my autopilot and can fly on RC mode ok, I engage ABM, and my model starts to drift off the last heading??
My rudder is the primary turn function and is waiting guidance from ABM, my FY31 is sending guidance commands via my aileron output.....to nothing! No ailerons fitted! How I laughed like a Donkey when I realised what I had done, Doh!
Easy fix.
Attached are some happy snaps of my latest FPV project and install, my old Skycampervan, I chopped the VW front off and built a more streamlined profile to reduce the drag, I don't have space problems inside as you can see, the most difficult part is getting her off the table and out the door! (The reverse of dating a woman I think?)

For interest here are some videos from my location:

http://vimeo.com/user1094271/videos

Good luck with your Bixler Geotete,
Cheers,
regards to all,

Al
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