Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 14, 2012, 11:04 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
Discussion
ALES - Let's discuss non-Radian foamies for ALES

We all know the Radian is popular for ALES. In stock form it makes or just barely falls short of the 200 meter mark in 30 seconds. A simple prop upgrade to a 10X8 will get you there in time.

How about other RTF, PnP or similar format foamies? Has anyone tried them with an ALES unit? How do they do?

Are there simple prop or battery changes needed to get them to 200 meters in 30 seconds?

Share what you have tried and what works.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 14, 2012, 11:15 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
Here are a few that I would love to hear about for ALES.

Phase 3 Phoenix II
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...-4g-radio.html

Phoenix 2000 (completely different from plane above)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=15859

Easy Fly
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=7895

Diamond 2500
http://www.nitroplanes.com/at-22093-...0-rtf-24g.html
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Last edited by aeajr; Jan 17, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:10 AM
Registered User
Lilienthal's Avatar
Littleton, CO
Joined Nov 2010
1,239 Posts
Good thread -I hope it catches on.

The advance of foam in the RC airplane market has up until recently been centered on crashworthiness and ease of manufacture (low price point). But when we see the low wing loading and resulting performance of the the Radian in ALES competition, it is clear that foam may have some advantages over the traditionally constructed high end sailplanes.

I think there is a future for higher end sailplanes that capture some of the advantages of foam and I'm hoping some may show up here.
Lilienthal is offline Find More Posts by Lilienthal
Last edited by Lilienthal; Jan 15, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:09 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ, Chatham
Joined Mar 2003
132 Posts
Aeajr,
I fly both types of Radians and a Diamond 2500.The Diamond on 4 cells and a Graupner 14-9.5 prop will out climb the Radians but does not thermal as well in light lift.The Diamond is good on windy days.The flaps are effective but landings could be a problem because the belly wheel provides looong landing rollouts.On a calm day with short grass we have rollouts up to 50 feet.Of course you could remove the wheel forALES.The Diamond does great aerobatics and and is good all-around fun airplane.The Diamond is much quicker to assemble at the field and it's size and t-tail make it easier to see than the Radians.

BALDY
baldy is offline Find More Posts by baldy
Last edited by baldy; Jan 15, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:45 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
You could always tape over the wheel for the contests.

Hopefully others will chime in.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:49 PM
Registered User
United States, OH, Loveland
Joined Feb 2007
354 Posts
Glad to see this thread. It is about time that foamies are becoming recognized. Does anyone know of any 3M foamies?
sinowace is online now Find More Posts by sinowace
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 10:12 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
Picked up this ALES report from MCSoars on the Diamond 2500
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=738

This is a copy of that post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsoars View Post
aeajr, I just did my 1st ALES contest using the D2500. The contest was, 150m 30sec climb, 10 min task, 10m landing tape 4 rounds. I did not score very well compared to the Radians which preformed almost as good as the high performance carbon ships. Two big factors were the conditions were very light and I am just learning to fly with ailerons. The D2500 could work OK for ALES on a good thermal day but is not competitive on a week thermal day.

With wing area of 55 dm2 (5.92 ft2) the wing loading is 11.5 oz./ft2 which is a bit heavy for light conditions and not a high performance glide ratio. Maybe the thermaling performance will improve significantly if I get a better TX RX and use full camber.

Another pilot said he has seen the D2500 float much better with full (ailerons + flaps) camber. I only have 6 channel TX RX and use Y connectors for ailerons & flaps. I use the mixers for aileron/rudder, flap/elevator and flap/flap mixing. The flap/flap is on switch to give me 10 deg flaps for slower flight speed and full flaps on a second switch.


As far as the clime rate goes using 1800mAh 3S 65C TP battery, stock 40amp ESC and stock 14-8 prop I was getting 150m climbs in 30 sec. Using 15-8 Aeronaut camcarbon I got 200m. The 15-8 Aeronaut prop diameter is only about 3/8 inch more than the stock prop but pulls 15-20% more amps and is much more efficient.

The stock ArtTech prop is stamped 14-8 but is long. The 14” prop measures 14” based on a 1 inch, 25.4mm yoke and on the stock yoke measures 14.9”. The Aeronaut props are based on a 40mm yoke and Graupner on 42mm yoke as best as I can measure and the stock yoke is 48.7mm.

I broke the prop adaptor collet by tightening the prop nut too tight. There is almost no metal thickness in stock collet between the 5mm motor shaft and the deep cuts of the 8mm course threaded prop shaft so be careful. I replaced with BB 50mm spinner/collet/yoke which has 8mm fine thread. The only problem is this yoke is 56mm which makes the aeronaut 15-8 prop diameter even larger (15.6”) and the spinner had to be notched deeper over the yoke to close the gap between the cowling and the backend of spinner. The stock spinner back plate extends back to close this gap which exists because the motor extends beyond the cowling.

I have removed the two 25.5g ea wing tip weights and the two 65g ea cockpit weights. The stock 9.5g plastic gear servos were replaced with 6-15g MG servos. Added some colored Mylar trim tape to bottom of wing and tail for visibility which add a little weight. This plane is a bit tail heavy especially with the two MG replacement servos in the tail. With my 212.5g, 1800mAh, 4S battery and ESC full forward the CG is good (slight positive stability and dive recovery) at 83mm (38% of cord).

In my case the stock 40 Amp ESC does not handle 4S with 15-8 prop on 58mm yoke. I am getting larger ESC and smaller, 14-8 Aeronaut prop to see how that goes when they come in. A 30 sec static motor run on 4S using the 15-8 prop at 60% throttle gives me about 37 amps with 50 deg. F temperature rise on the motor Maybe there is more cooling in flight

This gives enough power to climb almost straight vertical so plenty of power but I don’t like the motor getting this hot in just 30 sec. I would not want to hotline this motor at 40 Amps for more than 1 minute unless there is very good cooling air to cool the motor. Can anyone tell us what the max continuous amps this motor will handle? I am checking the motor temp after static runs with an optical inferred (IR) thermometer through one of the two side vent holes in the cowling. I understand the motor temp should not exceed 80 deg C, (176 F). Also the ESC tripped off on fast motor startup with full charge battery at 60% throttle. I assume the startup current exceeded 40 Amps? I will have more motor amp date when analyzing the data log from my new Castle Creations ESC.

My current all up weight is 1930.5g:

Fuse 823.5g
RW 362.0g
LW 383.5g
Wing rod + pins 76.5g
Horizontal Stab 72.5g
1800 4S TP Bat. 212.5g

I would also highly recommend changing the stock plastic prop to a carbon reinforced prop especially with 4S battery. I have had prop break on another model with plastic prop and this is a disaster (ripped motor off firewall and other plane damage from sever vibration). The Areonaut 15-8 has a listed max RPM of 9,000. The 14-8 is listed at 11,000 RPM: http://www.aero-naut.de/en/products/aircraft/airplane-accessories/propellers.html[/URL]

Mark C.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Last edited by aeajr; Jan 17, 2012 at 04:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 09:37 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,260 Posts
I'm thinking about putting my Neu 1105 2.5Y w/4.4:1 gb on my Easy Glider.
The tow hook is fixed, and I do not want to remove it.
Is this okay?
Kenny Sharp is online now Find More Posts by Kenny Sharp
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 12:29 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
I found this post in a Phoenix II discussion. I quote it here to add to this base of information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocula View Post
Looking at the log files from my RAM3, my maximum sustained climbing rate under power is just under 300m / minute. In stock form, it is a bit under powered for ALES. A few modifications to increase the launch height, and I think the plane would be competitive.

-Chocula
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 12:30 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
I'm thinking about putting my Neu 1105 2.5Y w/4.4:1 gb on my Easy Glider.
The tow hook is fixed, and I do not want to remove it.
Is this okay?
I don't see why anyone would care if you have a tow hook unless they had a no skeg rule and viewed that as a skeg. I would not, but I can't speak for others.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 01:28 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,260 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
I don't see why anyone would care if you have a tow hook unless they had a no skeg rule and viewed that as a skeg. I would not, but I can't speak for others.
Same here.... I was wondering what the rules said about that.
Kenny Sharp is online now Find More Posts by Kenny Sharp
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 04:38 PM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,170 Posts
Typically e-gliders don't have tow hooks. And most tow hooks can be unscrewed, so it is not likely to be addressed. I don't think anyone will bother you about it.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 06:55 PM
You looking at me?
Ed Franz's Avatar
USA, KY, Burlington
Joined Sep 2001
1,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
Same here.... I was wondering what the rules said about that.
I think I would worry more about the wings ripping off Kenny.

See you at Polecat!

Ed
Ed Franz is offline Find More Posts by Ed Franz
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2012, 11:26 PM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
here are more candidates:


http://www.gravesrc.com/ZD_FLY_ZD_38.../cerazd382.htm

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...F_Mode_2_.html

http://www.r2hobbies.com/eng/proddet...od=rcpl2401002
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Last edited by Doubletap; Jan 18, 2012 at 08:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2012, 10:04 AM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,111 Posts
Rbc

Oh boy, an ALES-RBC class ... That would be Altitude Limited Electric Soaring - Reconstituted Beer Cooler class

Darn you, Horizon, see what you've done to us with your Radians?

There are a lot of foamies out there, but few thermal as well as the original Radian REM (Rudder, Elevator, Motor) ... and I am not thrilled with the idea of diluting the ALES movement with an RBC class.

IMHO, of course.

tk
tkallev is offline Find More Posts by tkallev
Last edited by tkallev; Jan 18, 2012 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Let's Discuss ALES at SVSS here! jpherit Sacramento Valley Soaring Society 26 Mar 08, 2012 01:39 PM
Discussion let's discuss adding ballast atjurhs Thermal 15 Oct 03, 2010 11:11 PM
Discussion Let's discuss a trashed Micro 4-Site - re-build options? Grebs_59 Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 0 Feb 16, 2010 08:43 PM
Discussion So It Is Christmas, Let's Discuss Murocflyer Life, The Universe, and Politics 77 Jan 01, 2007 02:15 PM
Discussion Let's Discuss The Sport Flyer Wasp Slowdoc Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 1 Dec 08, 2006 01:24 PM