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Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:12 AM
"Unappreciative tosser"
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Canada, BC, Vancouver
Joined Oct 2011
567 Posts
It would be nice to hear from the guys who actually work for Hobbico as to what's going on. I'm fine with waiting, but would appreciate being kept in the loop. If I recall correctly they were happy to tell us late January for the ship date. Based on this, some of us ordered right away from hobby shops. It's clear the shop I ordered has no idea what's going on with the orders. Some of us have already paid for our orders, I think it's reasonable to request an explanation. So far we've seen only one forum member, with strong shop connections who has received his plane. This leads me to believe the first shipment was probably very small. There's plenty of punditry on this thread, lets see if Dieter or Mr. Johnson can let us know what's up.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 10:28 AM
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United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eltreato View Post
It would be nice to hear from the guys who actually work for Hobbico as to what's going on. I'm fine with waiting, but would appreciate being kept in the loop. If I recall correctly they were happy to tell us early March for the ship date. Based on this, some of us ordered right away from hobby shops. It's clear the shop I ordered has no idea what's going on with the orders. Some of us have already paid for our orders, I think it's reasonable to request an explanation. So far we've seen only one forum member, with strong shop connections has received his plane. This leads me to believe the first shipment was probably very small. There's plenty of punditry on this thread, lets see if Dieter or Mr. Johnson can let us know what's up.
I just find it hard to believe that in this day and age that no one at Hobbico knew where they were and how many were coming.. All it would take to keep just about all of us happy here would be some honest updates as to what's going on..

Like I have said no news is bad news, but bad news is better than no news..
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:03 AM
Editor - Flying Models
United States, CT
Joined Aug 2003
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Guys, I understand wanting to hear something from the horses mouth, but that simply isn't likely until much later today, at the earliest. E-Fest is all-consuming for their team. I spent more than half an hour on the phone with Dave after he got home from the show last night and he was about as tired as I have ever heard him to be. I also got woken up this morning by a call from their main media contact who wanted to thank me for last night's post. While she hadn't read it, one of their team had glanced at the thread this morning and they wanted me to know it was appreciated.

It is true, I am not an employee of Hobbico and I don't know everything about getting this product to market. What I can tell you is that in this case I do know enough to speak in solid support of their situation. I can assure you that everyone involved is doing their best to open the F-86 faucet as quickly and as widely as they can. That is only in their best interest.

The simple facts are that they got as many F-86's out of China as they could before CNY. It wasn't as many as they wanted, but it was a lot more than a few. The container got to Champaign when it did, and the models got sent to your local dealers as quickly as Hobbico could get them out the door after checking that all was good. Could they have had someone posting continuously on RCG, RCU, Facebook and Twitter with up to the minute status? Sure they could have, but that would have increased your wait time, and tipped off the fine folks at Horizon about how much time they had to get the MiGs going as well.

Don't forget for one minute that the both of these companies are continuously balancing the need to keep you informed and excited about their coming products with the need to keep the competition in the dark.

My quip about "little toy planes?" I am confident that no one took offense at my calling a spade a spade. As an RC professional I am just as invested as they in the success of these little toy planes to pay a mortgage and health insurance, put food on the table and gas in the car. We all know that you have plenty of other temptations for your discretionary spending and are incredibly grateful that we can offer products you deem worthy of that spending.

And now I will leave the rest of the discussion of their business to Dave and Dieter when they have a chance to check back in. Me? I'm going out to brunch with my family at the diner and will then spend most of the day helping my son work on his 2012 Pinewood Derby car. Thank you for affording me both of those luxuries.

Thayer
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 11:20 AM
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United States, MI, Livonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayer View Post
Guys, I understand wanting to hear something from the horses mouth, but that simply isn't likely until much later today, at the earliest. E-Fest is all-consuming for their team. I spent more than half an hour on the phone with Dave after he got home from the show last night and he was about as tired as I have ever heard him to be. I also got woken up this morning by a call from their main media contact who wanted to thank me for last night's post. While she hadn't read it, one of their team had glanced at the thread this morning and they wanted me to know it was appreciated.

It is true, I am not an employee of Hobbico and I don't know everything about getting this product to market. What I can tell you is that in this case I do know enough to speak in solid support of their situation. I can assure you that everyone involved is doing their best to open the F-86 faucet as quickly and as widely as they can. That is only in their best interest.

The simple facts are that they got as many F-86's out of China as they could before CNY. It wasn't as many as they wanted, but it was a lot more than a few. The container got to Champaign when it did, and the models got sent to your local dealers as quickly as Hobbico could get them out the door after checking that all was good. Could they have had someone posting continuously on RCG, RCU, Facebook and Twitter with up to the minute status? Sure they could have, but that would have increased your wait time, and tipped off the fine folks at Horizon about how much time they had to get the MiGs going as well.

Don't forget for one minute that the both of these companies are continuously balancing the need to keep you informed and excited about their coming products with the need to keep the competition in the dark.

My quip about "little toy planes?" I am confident that no one took offense at my calling a spade a spade. As an RC professional I am just as invested as they in the success of these little toy planes to pay a mortgage and health insurance, put food on the table and gas in the car. We all know that you have plenty of other temptations for your discretionary spending and are incredibly grateful that we can offer products you deem worthy of that spending.

And now I will leave the rest of the discussion of their business to Dave and Dieter when they have a chance to check back in. Me? I'm going out to brunch with my family at the diner and will then spend most of the day helping my son work on his 2012 Pinewood Derby car. Thank you for affording me both of those luxuries.

Thayer
Thank you for the update..
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Gulf Breeze, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayer View Post
I also got woken up this morning by a call from their main media contact who wanted to thank me for last night's post.
Hopefully the main media contact will also make minor contact here to assuage the folks expecting follow up to the info previously provided - by the company. Obviously company folks are reading this thread, but just not replying.

Quote:
My quip about "little toy planes?" I am confident that no one took offense at my calling a spade a spade. As an RC professional.....


Quote:
And now I will leave the rest of the discussion of their business to Dave and Dieter....
Believe it or not, most folks contributing to this discussion appear to be grown up (despite playing with toys) and likely understand that certain circumstances can't be anticipated or planned for..but others (like Chinese New Year) certainly are. Instead of making excuses, however, I think it would be to the benefit of the company (and therefore the main media contact) to merely be timely and clear in updating information that they have previously "put out there".

Of course, there is no such thing as negative publicity.

Gene K
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 12:31 PM
Can't leave well enough alone
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United States, VT, Burlington
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged View Post
Nicely put, Scott.
Thanks Nitro!

@ Thayer - Thanks for reminding us of the shortcomings of dealing with Chinese manufacturing and the logistics involved. They may be cheap but we pay for it in other ways. I worked in the "outdoor gear" industry for years and have more than a few horror stories: we distributed skis for an American co. that had just moved manufacturing to China. They shipped a huge 15 ton ski press over, the Chinese refused to open the crate due to a minor technicality on the bill of lading. By the time the error was remedied and the crate "opened", the entire press had been stripped down and sold off! Needless to say they were now going to be way behind in manufacturing the skis and once product did start finally arriving it was woefully sub-standard; they ended up shipping second, third, and fourth quality to retailers in place of firsts just so they could deliver something at least four months late! It was embarrassing and shameful to even be minimally associated with the situation. I can't believe the company is still in business after that, and none of it was really their fault in the first place other than the decision to move manufacturing to China to save money. Ironically in the end it cost them a boat-load of cash and a huge hit to their reputation.

I sure hope my wife doesn't see that we've admitted our planes are "toys" after all the times I've insisted it is a serious "hobby"!
-Scott
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 12:32 PM
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United States, TN, Jackson
Joined Mar 2007
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Frankly, I and others here, are tired of the Efest excuse...It took me all of 10 minutes to read the threads in this post from the date we all realized only a few were getting planes...And it only takes a few minutes to give us a considerate post to give us a "heads up" as to the reason planes were allocated in the manner in which they were...

It REALLY ticks me off to find out that my order was placed before others and they received theirs first due to not ordering from Tower...I PREPAID for mine and simply didn't tell "one of the guys at the shop" to hold one if they come in...Not only didn't "first in" get their planes, I have $140 tied up in a pre-pay for months...I purchased mine from Tower for the very reason that they get theirs first...I guess all of the shops would cry foul if Tower had claimed them all...

Having studied business I know exactly what they were thinking---We only have a few, scatter them to our best dealers first---Guys will get the few out there and fly them, telling the masses how well they fly---And HOPEFULLY (take a gamble/risk) we won't loose too many customers that don't receive the plane while we restock ...

All that is well and fine with me....However...Not taking the simple 15 minutes of time to read and respond is inexcusable in a market where SERVICE matters more that substance..Most people have a forgiving nature when given an HONEST reason...But silence is the WORST thing a business can do as it fuels a fire that can potentially get out of control, possibly permanently harming its reputation...

Kevin
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 12:35 PM
Inciting Riots
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Joined Dec 2006
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And Horizon now knows exactly where this F-86 stands and are probably confident that they can grab a good half of the unfilled preorders away for their Mig, so for them this will be a huge win if they can really bring that product to market on or before the target date. I would guess they have already changed the production schedule to try and get the Mig worked on first and hopefully here faster knowing they can grab more sales if the F-86 is still not available. I know if I was in their position this is exactly what I would be trying to do.

Also it is really sounding like there are only a few hundred F-86 in the country, it must have been a short container or it was a full container with a bunch of other new planes helping to fill it. I would have appreciated a statement that there were only XXX planes coming in and that the decision had been made to fill orders with local shops first. Or at least that they would officially fill LHS orders before filling any online orders and not tell us how many (or few) had actually made it into the country.

And for the record, the reason I am considering cancelling is from a more important unexpected expense since it is easy to deal with now. I feel for the guys that got charged for the preorder, at least mine has cost me nothing yet so I'll probably let it hang for a short time to see what happens with expenses since it still costs me nothing. FYI in many states you must ship an item within 30 days of taking the money, can you image the chaos this is going to cause to the LHS that suddenly needs to refund a bunch of people? This is why places like Tower will not charge you until it ships.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 12:43 PM
Can't leave well enough alone
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United States, VT, Burlington
Joined Apr 2007
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Back to discussing the PLANE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scribble79 View Post
As promised I got some pics late last night of unboxing the 86.

The tp battery being the largest I have I decided to see if it fit and there was no real issues with it fitting under the canopy. I would made the leads from the battery shorter if I was using in this plane only and also remove the balance cables for size and possibly weight savings.
I unfortunately don't have my scale as my brother borrowed and I haven't seen it since.
Hey Scribble, keep us posted on the battery weight comparison. It'd be great to find a larger capacity battery if it could come at a minimal weight penalty! Any chance of a pic of the underside? I've been wondering how the ailerons are hooked up.

-Scott
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Lebanon,OH
Joined Oct 2002
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So you few guys(2 or so) that have the plane are just screwing with batteries and havnt flown it yet?? We want a flight report!! Jeez
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 02:25 PM
LiPo-Sucker & Airframe EMT
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Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayer View Post
.....Don't forget for one minute that the both of these companies are continuously balancing the need to keep you informed and excited about their coming products with the need to keep the competition in the dark.
At this late stage in the game, I find that to be an extremely troubling rationale.

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Old Feb 12, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Oct 2010
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What was said is all fine and good. However they failed to produce a product on time and in sufficient numbers. On top of that they kept this all under their hat. You can't tell me that their decision to ship to the local shops only was made the day the shipment came in.

I got a line on a couple locally if they show up. If not, they lost my sale for this and more than likely many future ones a well. I have everything I need for the HH products with out needing to buy an extra adaptor and cable.

Since this is a hobby it seems as if folks have accepted the missing of delivery dates as the norm. The truth is that this has already harmed their reputation.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 02:49 PM
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FWIW, I'm pretty excited that this plane ships with Deans 2R connectors. I've been using them for years, and love them. Every 2S UM from HH has had a Deans soldered on prior to it's maiden. The HH connector is a good idea, but I'm not changing connectors in midstream and having some batteries dedicated to specific planes.
The polarity of the positive lead from the battery being the "post" is correct, and industry standard. Doing your batteries any other way puts you at risk of seeing the "magic smoke".
I was at E-Fest yesterday and saw Dave Johnson. He's definitely more frazzled than usual, and has a lot of responsibility at E-Fest, including running the scale contest and generously giving a seminar about the Anylink system and detailing/personalizing models. It's inspiring to see the workmanship he performs on the little Fokker DR1. He took the time to field questions from anyone who could catch up to him. It's a bit disheartening to hear a bunch of guys fling accusations at someone they haven't even met.
I guess it's the age we live in where instant gratification is considered a birthright. Like many here, I pre-ordered from Tower, thinking they'd ship first, or at least at the same time as the first ones went out. I'm as disappointed as anyone here that I didn't get mine in time for E-Fest. I will just have to wait. I've done it before. Remember the original UM Sukhoi? That one took a while! I'm sure Dave will chime in here soon. Remember he's a product developer, not an inventory control/shipping clerk.
By the way, I saw several of the Sabres fly. I also saw several E-Flite MiG 15's fly. They both look like fine flyers. I'd expect the MiG to be less demanding of pilot skill because of the AS3X. Speed looked similar. I went with the Sabre because it was less money, coming out first, and comes with the Anylink, which I can use for my Fokker. Luke's RC was at E-Fest, too. They had received a grand total of one Sabre, which they were raffling off. My fingers are crossed!
Mr2
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 03:21 PM
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Case and point where I have waited before so it is okay.

This isn't instant gratification, that would have been having these ready when announced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minirips2 View Post
FWIW, I'm pretty excited that this plane ships with Deans 2R connectors. I've been using them for years, and love them. Every 2S UM from HH has had a Deans soldered on prior to it's maiden. The HH connector is a good idea, but I'm not changing connectors in midstream and having some batteries dedicated to specific planes.
The polarity of the positive lead from the battery being the "post" is correct, and industry standard. Doing your batteries any other way puts you at risk of seeing the "magic smoke".
I was at E-Fest yesterday and saw Dave Johnson. He's definitely more frazzled than usual, and has a lot of responsibility at E-Fest, including running the scale contest and generously giving a seminar about the Anylink system and detailing/personalizing models. It's inspiring to see the workmanship he performs on the little Fokker DR1. He took the time to field questions from anyone who could catch up to him. It's a bit disheartening to hear a bunch of guys fling accusations at someone they haven't even met.
I guess it's the age we live in where instant gratification is considered a birthright. Like many here, I pre-ordered from Tower, thinking they'd ship first, or at least at the same time as the first ones went out. I'm as disappointed as anyone here that I didn't get mine in time for E-Fest. I will just have to wait. I've done it before. Remember the original UM Sukhoi? That one took a while! I'm sure Dave will chime in here soon. Remember he's a product developer, not an inventory control/shipping clerk.
By the way, I saw several of the Sabres fly. I also saw several E-Flite MiG 15's fly. They both look like fine flyers. I'd expect the MiG to be less demanding of pilot skill because of the AS3X. Speed looked similar. I went with the Sabre because it was less money, coming out first, and comes with the Anylink, which I can use for my Fokker. Luke's RC was at E-Fest, too. They had received a grand total of one Sabre, which they were raffling off. My fingers are crossed!
Mr2
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 03:33 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minirips2 View Post
FWIW, I'm pretty excited that this plane ships with Deans 2R connectors. I've been using them for years, and love them. Every 2S UM from HH has had a Deans soldered on prior to it's maiden. The HH connector is a good idea, but I'm not changing connectors in midstream and having some batteries dedicated to specific planes.
The polarity of the positive lead from the battery being the "post" is correct, and industry standard. Doing your batteries any other way puts you at risk of seeing the "magic smoke".
I was at E-Fest yesterday and saw Dave Johnson. He's definitely more frazzled than usual, and has a lot of responsibility at E-Fest, including running the scale contest and generously giving a seminar about the Anylink system and detailing/personalizing models. It's inspiring to see the workmanship he performs on the little Fokker DR1. He took the time to field questions from anyone who could catch up to him. It's a bit disheartening to hear a bunch of guys fling accusations at someone they haven't even met.
I guess it's the age we live in where instant gratification is considered a birthright. Like many here, I pre-ordered from Tower, thinking they'd ship first, or at least at the same time as the first ones went out. I'm as disappointed as anyone here that I didn't get mine in time for E-Fest. I will just have to wait. I've done it before. Remember the original UM Sukhoi? That one took a while! I'm sure Dave will chime in here soon. Remember he's a product developer, not an inventory control/shipping clerk.
By the way, I saw several of the Sabres fly. I also saw several E-Flite MiG 15's fly. They both look like fine flyers. I'd expect the MiG to be less demanding of pilot skill because of the AS3X. Speed looked similar. I went with the Sabre because it was less money, coming out first, and comes with the Anylink, which I can use for my Fokker. Luke's RC was at E-Fest, too. They had received a grand total of one Sabre, which they were raffling off. My fingers are crossed!
Mr2
Having the post on the battery being positive isn't my standard way of doing it so I'll be changing the plane over first thing.. And I see no reason why one way lets the smoke out any easier than the other.. I just like to keep all my positive's protected from my car and motorcycle days. So didn't want to have two different personal standards...
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