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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:00 PM
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Hi All,

I just got a mini CP clone (Wasp Nano CP), as a cheap 6 ch trainer, supposedly designed for beginners so I'm posting here........

When I initialize the heli on the level ground, and then pick it up and test-run it, it seems to want to tilt to the right as I increase throttle and the pitch increases. The swash tilts to the right and the left servo arm rises. When I throttle down, the swash levels. I'm not familiar with FBL helis and new to 6 ch CP. I can fly mini 4 ch FPs (I have a v911)

Is this normal or what?

I also noted that one of the ball-linkages (at the blade holder ball joint) was so tight it was difficult to move, so I removed the rod and reamed it a bit and then re-applied it with some graphite lubricant so it moves smoother now.

Its raining out here, so I can't fly it (don't want to do it indoors given my inexperience!)

I did try a couple of test flights yesterday, the take-offs were ugly and the heli was going everywhere, especially right side, which is what the question above is about. No damage with my hard landings (bordering on controlled crashes, as I was flying over grass).

Thank you for your time!
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by miketre View Post
...
my M0.5 8t pinion arrived yesterday, ... Anyone knows if this is the correct pitch?
http://www.overskyrc.com/index.php?m...a360a62afe4812
I did a thread search, and 0.5 Mod Pinion seems to be correct.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Hi All,

I just got a mini CP clone (Wasp Nano CP), as a cheap 6 ch trainer, supposedly designed for beginners so I'm posting here........

When I initialize the heli on the level ground, and then pick it up and test-run it, it seems to want to tilt to the right as I increase throttle and the pitch increases. The swash tilts to the right and the left servo arm rises. When I throttle down, the swash levels. I'm not familiar with FBL helis and new to 6 ch CP. I can fly mini 4 ch FPs (I have a v911)

Is this normal or what?

I also noted that one of the ball-linkages (at the blade holder ball joint) was so tight it was difficult to move, so I removed the rod and reamed it a bit and then re-applied it with some graphite lubricant so it moves smoother now.

Its raining out here, so I can't fly it (don't want to do it indoors given my inexperience!)

I did try a couple of test flights yesterday, the take-offs were ugly and the heli was going everywhere, especially right side, which is what the question above is about. No damage with my hard landings (bordering on controlled crashes, as I was flying over grass).

Thank you for your time!
Here' are a couple reposts from a couple weeks ago that might help:

Quote:
Originally Posted by i812 View Post
I watched part of that video, and he states the Links can be turned in 180* increments. I seriously doubt it. Every heli Link I've ever bothered to take a very close look has "polarized" eyelets which are only to be installed in one direction (i.e. are intended to be turned in full 360* increments). The difference between one side of the eye and the other is one side's hole is beveled and the other side's hole is not beveled. The side with the beveled hole is the side that should be pushed on to the Ball. Trying to push the non-beveled side of the eye onto a ball is very difficult, and will often result in busting your balls.
...

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Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Ideally all 3 Servo Arms should be mechanically "Zero'd" at 90*.

However, the splines in the Servo Arm only allows positioning of the Servo Arm to within +/- 1 Servo Tooth of 90*; therefore, a more realistic (less than ideal) scenario, would be to have all 3 Servo's have the same amount and direction of "error" away from "Zero" (i.e. 90*).

If all 3 Servos don't "track" with the same amount of error, then most people would choose the 2 most closely matched Servo/Arms for use as the two rear AIL Servos. With the mismatch error existing only between EL Servo and the "matched-pair" AIL Servos, a change in Pitch command would result in only an un-commanded EL Servo error (otherwise if the AIL Servos were mismatched in error tracking, then a change in Pitch command would result in both un-commanded EL and AIL Servo errors).

As tracknoob and jasmine stated, ideally regardless of whatever un-commanded Servo errors that may occur, the Servo error(s) will later be sensed by the Gyro(s), which will subsequently send error correction signals to the appropriate "off-track" Servos, and given enough time (through many Gyro/Servo iterations?) a good control system will eventually reduce the error.

Although I think having Servo Arms and their Links mechanically perfect, will provide the best smoothest flight, I believe the best "bang for the buck" can be had from the "ground-up" by "obsessing" over initializing the Gyro system on a horizontally plumb launch site from a plumb-square Landing Skid. My next lower level of obsession would be from the "top-down", trying to get as close to zero Blade Tracking Error and hover vibrations. When the ground-up, and top-down priorities were satisfactory, then I'd focus on obsessing with "zeroing" the Servo Arms and their Links.

Indoorheli's - How To Adjust Servo Links video was recently posted in the Nano thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDjQjVqL3WA

A Zip-Wrap carefully rotated around the Main Shaft can be used instead of a Leveling Tool to indicate the "levelness" of the Servo Links.

For what it is worth, I eyeball my Servo Arms to position them to have the same amount of Zero error as possible, then simply measure and adjust all 3 Servo Links to the same length for positioning the Swashplate in the center of its travel limits at zero Pitch. Even though I think mechanically adjusting everything to perfection would result in the smoothest flight, I don't obsess too much about it. I strive to get the most bang for my buck, and therefore try to spend more time crashing than fixing.
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Last edited by i812; Dec 27, 2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: add second repost
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Hi All,

I just got a mini CP clone (Wasp Nano CP), as a cheap 6 ch trainer, supposedly designed for beginners so I'm posting here........

When I initialize the heli on the level ground, and then pick it up and test-run it, it seems to want to tilt to the right as I increase throttle and the pitch increases. The swash tilts to the right and the left servo arm rises. When I throttle down, the swash levels. I'm not familiar with FBL helis and new to 6 ch CP. I can fly mini 4 ch FPs (I have a v911)

Is this normal or what?

I also noted that one of the ball-linkages (at the blade holder ball joint) was so tight it was difficult to move, so I removed the rod and reamed it a bit and then re-applied it with some graphite lubricant so it moves smoother now.

Its raining out here, so I can't fly it (don't want to do it indoors given my inexperience!)

I did try a couple of test flights yesterday, the take-offs were ugly and the heli was going everywhere, especially right side, which is what the question above is about. No damage with my hard landings (bordering on controlled crashes, as I was flying over grass).

Thank you for your time!
i know you see vids of people flying their flybarless cp's from their hands but you really should fly it from the ground because the gyro tries to compensate for every tiny movement you make while holding it. so just throttle up pop it up about 2ft in the air and go from there. the heli should actually scoot left a bit...you HAVE to fly the cp heli's it's not just going to sit there. you must control it every step of the way.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
i know you see vids of people flying their flybarless cp's from their hands but you really should fly it from the ground because the gyro tries to compensate for every tiny movement you make while holding it. so just throttle up pop it up about 2ft in the air and go from there. the heli should actually scoot left a bit...you HAVE to fly the cp heli's it's not just going to sit there. you must control it every step of the way.
Thank you for the detailed response. I was only testing it in my hand to see what was going on.

So you think this was an aileron error that is tilting the swash to the right as the pitch increases?

I too was expecting a scoot to the left and back, so was surprised with what happened. I was trying to get it up fast, which I did, but then it was totally out of control.

Others have described this heli as at least coming up smoothly, but this never happened.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:47 AM
Deviant
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Joined Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Thank you for the detailed response. I was only testing it in my hand to see what was going on.

So you think this was an aileron error that is tilting the swash to the right as the pitch increases?

I too was expecting a scoot to the left and back, so was surprised with what happened. I was trying to get it up fast, which I did, but then it was totally out of control.

Others have described this heli as at least coming up smoothly, but this never happened.
No error, the tilting is because you hold it in your hand. The gyro tries to compensate harder and harder. Gyros work on a feedback loop, they move the servos a bit, then if nothing happens they move them again, this time more. This leads to what you have experienced.

If this is your first CP it will seem out of control, you have to be fast. Once is up the ground you have to be on your toes and control it. It may seem out of control but it's not. It's how the micros fly. I suggest your lower the rates to about 55-60 and add some 20% expo. This way it will be much easier to not over-control it.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
No error, the tilting is because you hold it in your hand. The gyro tries to compensate harder and harder. Gyros work on a feedback loop, they move the servos a bit, then if nothing happens they move them again, this time more. This leads to what you have experienced.

If this is your first CP it will seem out of control, you have to be fast. Once is up the ground you have to be on your toes and control it. It may seem out of control but it's not. It's how the micros fly. I suggest your lower the rates to about 55-60 and add some 20% expo. This way it will be much easier to not over-control it.
Excellent explanation, and I tested it by holding it on the ground and running it, and the effect seemed much less.

The D/R is set to 50% for two channels, and 60% for one.

Exp is 0%, all channels.

This heli has a "beginner mode" set by pressing a button on the receiver, which is what I was using. The other mode is a "aerobatic mode" again set by pressing the same button on the receiver.

Should I set the D/R and Exp in this same "beginner mode" or do it in the "aerobatic mode"?

No documentation on what this beginner mode does, I am assuming it already uses lower rates and higher gyro gain settings on the receiver?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 04:38 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
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Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Excellent explanation, and I tested it by holding it on the ground and running it, and the effect seemed much less.

The D/R is set to 50% for two channels, and 60% for one.

Exp is 0%, all channels.

This heli has a "beginner mode" set by pressing a button on the receiver, which is what I was using. The other mode is a "aerobatic mode" again set by pressing the same button on the receiver.

Should I set the D/R and Exp in this same "beginner mode" or do it in the "aerobatic mode"?

No documentation on what this beginner mode does, I am assuming it already uses lower rates and higher gyro gain settings on the receiver?
If I remember, the Wasp requires you to program linked to a PC. Go into the program and check the pitch curves. Beginner is probably like normal mode and the other setting is likely 3d mode. My suggestion is to set the AIL/ELV dual rates to 70% and the EXPO to 30% . My experience is if the dual rate is set to low, the Heli becomes too sloppy and is harder to handle. Do this in the beginner mode as that is all you should be flying in for now.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:30 PM
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How can I remove the feathering shaft? I tried to pull it but nothing happened. It seems to have stuck in the rotor head. Is it normal?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:49 PM
Heli Crash Survivor
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Originally Posted by helicopter_new View Post
How can I remove the feathering shaft? I tried to pull it but nothing happened. It seems to have stuck in the rotor head. Is it normal?
Take your 2 alien wrenches that came with the heli & remove 1 screw & it will come out. I think it aliens the GCP is but the V120D02S are phillips heads.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash Survivor View Post
Take your 2 alien wrenches that came with the heli & remove 1 screw & it will come out. I think it aliens the GCP is but the V120D02S are phillips heads.
I have of course already remove one of the two screws but it seems to have stuck.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by helicopter_new View Post
I have of course already remove one of the two screws but it seems to have stuck.
Then that is normal, just pull real hard & the blade grips will separate.
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Last edited by Crash Survivor; Dec 28, 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash Survivor View Post
Then that is normal, just pull real hard & the blade grips will separate.
I'll try and hope not to damage the grips!
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:06 PM
Heli Crash Survivor
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Originally Posted by helicopter_new View Post
I'll try and hope not to damage the grips!
Just use your fingers & you be OK. But use some blue loctite/low strength when you put the screws back in. I use a pin/needle to apply locite to the inside of the feathering shaft.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
If I remember, the Wasp requires you to program linked to a PC. Go into the program and check the pitch curves. Beginner is probably like normal mode and the other setting is likely 3d mode. My suggestion is to set the AIL/ELV dual rates to 70% and the EXPO to 30% . My experience is if the dual rate is set to low, the Heli becomes too sloppy and is harder to handle. Do this in the beginner mode as that is all you should be flying in for now.
for a really new flyer you can probably use up to 45% expo 0% expo will feel WAY to jerky though. I've been flying nearly two years and i still don't care for how sensitive 0% expo makes my bird feel.
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