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Old Jan 06, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Charging a Lipo for first time

After doing my research I am firing up my new charger and plunging ahead.

I have the Pro-Peak Sigma II.

I am charging 2S 2300 mAH 20C batteries.

I have read about charging for the first time, but did not pay attention when I saw it. Now I can't find a specific thread or what the term is for prepping a new battery. I saw a suggestion saying doing it at 1/2 C. So would it be a good idea to charge these batteries at 1.2 A for the first time? For how long should I use this charge rate? When can I step up to 1C or 3C?

Thanks

One last question, my charger did not come with a temp sensor even though there is a plug on the side for it, should i take it back, or get a different model?
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 01:34 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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As one who has tested and used many LiPolys over the years I see no valid reason to charge at under 1C when doing a balance charge.

Any decent quality 20C LiPoly should be fine with up to a 3C balance charge but it is best to stay with the vendors / manufactures recomendations especially until you gain experience.

LiPoly batteries do not warn up enough during a normal charge for a temperature sensor to provide any benefit.

Charles
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 08:56 PM
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New lipo

HI
As I understand, new LIPOs should be "cycled" at a lower "rate" for a few cycles before using them.
My new charger will discharge to "storage" of 3.8v per cell.
Will charging, and then discharging to "storage" for a few cycles achieve the desired results?

Thanks, RUD
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUDDERLESS View Post

Will charging, and then discharging to "storage" for a few cycles achieve the desired results?

Thanks, RUD
Yes it will.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:29 AM
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So how many is "a few cycles"?
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 02:19 AM
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I do 5 cycles.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUDDERLESS View Post
HI
As I understand, new LIPOs should be "cycled" at a lower "rate" for a few cycles before using them.
I'd be interested in any manufacturers guidance that said this? I've never seen any, to me it smacks of 'urban myth'.. People applying the same 'runing-in' principal that you apply to new engines (new flash.. batteries have no moving mechanical parts to run-in)

I'll keep an open mind but until I see a manufacturer advising it I'll not be doing it. Until then as far as I'm concerned having a battery sitting on the bench cycling is just wasting cycles of the batteries finite life. I'll just charge it and fly it.

Steve
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
I'd be interested in any manufacturers guidance that said this? I've never seen any, to me it smacks of 'urban myth'.. People applying the same 'runing-in' principal that you apply to new engines (new flash.. batteries have no moving mechanical parts to run-in)

I'll keep an open mind but until I see a manufacturer advising it I'll not be doing it. Until then as far as I'm concerned having a battery sitting on the bench cycling is just wasting cycles of the batteries finite life. I'll just charge it and fly it.

Steve
Steve,

I believe that there is a forming process in the first cycle.
I recently tested a range of Gens Ace and I always measure IR and other parameters (at 25degC, controlled) "as received" and after each of the first few low discharge cycles.
The IR values dropped significantly and consistently by 20 - 25% after the first cycle but did not change after that. This means that if you subject a new pack to very high discharge rates then its internal heat dissipation will be high and may well damage it.

Wayne
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 08:21 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Myself,Charle Wang (Mr. TP) Dave (Mr. Hyperion) have all recomended a new LiPoly breakin / forming routine and first started doing so around 6 years ago.

This info is much like proper storage info which has been posted as long or longer which many still have not heard of.

I have numerious CBA graphs and supporting text data in the Battery Graph Vault which clearly shows the increase in a LIPolys performance if given a chance yo form before having its' guts torn out.


One point I have posted numerious times is that one should never charge a new LiPoly ,place it in an aircraft and do a balls to the walls performance check flight.

Charles
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Great info

Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Myself,Charle Wang (Mr. TP) Dave (Mr. Hyperion) have all recomended a new LiPoly breakin / forming routine and first started doing so around 6 years ago.

This info is much like proper storage info which has been posted as long or longer which many still have not heard of.

I have numerious CBA graphs and supporting text data in the Battery Graph Vault which clearly shows the increase in a LIPolys performance if given a chance yo form before having its' guts torn out.


One point I have posted numerious times is that one should never charge a new LiPoly ,place it in an aircraft and do a balls to the walls performance check flight.

Charles
Thanks Charles.
Could you confirm the minimum number of "break in" cycles for a new battery, and wether only discharging to storage during cycles, 3.8v/cell, is OK..

RUD
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUDDERLESS View Post


Thanks Charles.
Could you confirm the minimum number of "break in" cycles for a new battery, and wether only discharging to storage during cycles, 3.8v/cell, is OK..

RUD
I would be interested in this number as well. So far, Woodcrafter has mentioned five cycles.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:21 PM
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By break in, do you mean full charge and then full discharge?
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:54 PM
PGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
One point I have posted numerious times is that one should never charge a new LiPoly ,place it in an aircraft and do a balls to the walls performance check flight.
I completely agree with this and act accordingly. That said, I've never cycled a single battery pack with a charger, at least not for the sake of breaking it in. I charge 'em and fly 'em, however I keep it sedate for the first few flights on a new pack and I'll end the flight a lot sooner than I would with an "experienced" pack.

That's how I break in my packs and I get outstanding cycle life out of them. But it's important to note that I'm not one of those full-throttle pilots***. I was born with two thumbs and I keep 'em both busy when I fly.

Pete

*** Many new pilots (and some experienced ones) haven't developed good throttle management skills. They basically firewall the throttle to launch and the throttle stays there for the duration of the flight. This seems to be particularly true for ducted fan pilots. People who fly like that probably should break in their packs by cycling them on a charger.

rePete
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Last edited by PGR; Jan 15, 2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 01:06 PM
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Here is an excerpt from the latest Thunder Power battery safety instructions.

"First few Flights
Thunder Power recommends no more than 3-5C average discharge for breaking in new packs. Also be extremely careful not to over
discharge new packs (Packs should NEVER be over discharged at any time, but over discharging on the first flight will ruin the battery
permanently before you are able to enjoy it. See “Caring for Battery” below)."

Now the 5 flights that I mentioned and that I have seen quoted by others for quite a while may be somewhat of an "urban legend" but why push it right up to the edge. Why risk damage when you don't have to.

I have also read that many have had better flights from a pack with 10 cycles on it than with 5 cycles on it. This may mean that the IR is still coming down after as many as 10 cycles.

Charles may have some data on this.

A side note - When I break in a new battery I do it in the air not on the bench.
I try to enjoy discharging the packs, not just creating heat on the bench.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 03:17 AM
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Thanks for the info. If this 'break in' is so important to the longevity of a battery I wonder then why the manufacturer doesn't put a cycle or two through the battery in the factory? If it has the benefits described then this would both increase performance and reduce premature failure warranty claims. Surely they would do it if it worked?

However.... Woodcrafter, I asked for manufacturers advice and you provided it, so on the basis that 'it cant do any harm' in the future I will at least go easy on new batteries for a flight or two and charge at less than highest c limit.. Like you, what I'm not about to do is waste a battery by cycling on the bench.

Steve
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