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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:21 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
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The English version of the Bluetooth android app for the ZYX & ZYX-S is now available:

http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/p...oducts_id=8962

There's also a short video on how to use it as well. This gyro just keeps getting better.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 09:41 AM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
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Hello everybody, congrats for supporting this piece of hardware!

I have a may-be stupid question:

I just received my CX-3X1000. Why would I flash it with tarot's firmware and use their software?

I can just use John's software to program it, no?

Thanks
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 09:48 AM
AMA Member # 458448
lcc014's Avatar
United States, MA, ALLSTON
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenflying View Post
The English version of the Bluetooth android app for the ZYX & ZYX-S is now available:

http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/p...oducts_id=8962

There's also a short video on how to use it as well. This gyro just keeps getting better.
After loading this latest app to my cell phone, I found out that you can toggle between English and Chinese characters (Simplified fonts). So this is an international version

Ching-Ho Cheng
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 09:50 AM
Texas NewB
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United States, MD, Princess Anne
Joined Dec 2011
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There is no real reason to do it and you only have a slim chance of it working at all.
only reason people are doing it is because CopterX is not supporting there Own hardware claiming it don't need updated When in fact it dose and the only way for them to be able to update is to cross flash it.
Now if CopterX where to start to support the product there would be no need for it.
reality is they are about 98% the same gyros.
Johns software is all you need to program it yes.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 10:13 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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CX firmware OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
Hello everybody, congrats for supporting this piece of hardware!

I have a may-be stupid question:

I just received my CX-3X1000. Why would I flash it with tarot's firmware and use their software?

I can just use John's software to program it, no?

Thanks
As Black_Heart says, there isn't much reason to do it. If you're just starting out, you should definitely keep things simple and just keep it as is and use either the CX software or John_NZ's software.

Now when you get used to it, and if you haven't shelled out for a CX program box, you then have the option of cross-flashing with the Tarot firmware. It's not guaranteed to work, although I believe most people manage to reload the original CX firmware and not end up with a bricked unit. When cross-flashed with the Tarot firmware, the CX program box will no longer work with the unit - and they charge almost as much for the program box as for the 3x1000. Some lucky early buyers got the combo deal of controller and program box for $50, but that seems like a long time ago now!

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the CX firmware. The heli doesn't balloon up in fast forward flight, for example, which I believe was a failing of one of the Tarot firmwares. The only thing people really complain about is some stop bounce in the tail rotor, and that can depend on so many mechanical factors that it's hard to identify it as a real firmware issue.

At the end of the day, the CX can give pretty amazing performance bearing in mind it's super low cost.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 10:44 AM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
1,827 Posts
Thanks both of you for your answers!

Does bluetooth-android only support Tarot fw though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
When cross-flashed with the Tarot firmware, the CX program box will no longer work with the unit - and they charge almost as much for the program box as for the 3x1000.
Yeah, I know, I read the first 5-6 pages of the thread but got tired later. No program box for me
I'm more of a laptop guy anyway

So, I'm just trying to set my heli up for tail-in and side-in hovers, this is fine.

I'm actually replacing a bad gyro on a flybared 450 with this unit, so I have a question:
Do I need to do something special to set the ZYX just for rudder use only? Or I just go through the setup process (by John_NZ's manual) normally, and just ignore the parts about cyclics etc?
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 12:28 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
Thanks both of you for your answers!

Does bluetooth-android only support Tarot fw though?
Can't really answer that - you obviously need a bluetooth adaptor, but I don't know if it works with the CX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
Yeah, I know, I read the first 5-6 pages of the thread but got tired later. No program box for me
I'm more of a laptop guy anyway
I have the program box, and do use it every now and then. It's quite handy since it also functions as a servo tester and battery checker, but most of the time I use the laptop - and have even taken it with me to the flying site sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
So, I'm just trying to set my heli up for tail-in and side-in hovers, this is fine.

I'm actually replacing a bad gyro on a flybared 450 with this unit, so I have a question:
Do I need to do something special to set the ZYX just for rudder use only? Or I just go through the setup process (by John_NZ's manual) normally, and just ignore the parts about cyclics etc?
I don't think you need anything extra. As far as I know, you simply connect the rudder and tail gain leads from the controller to your RX, and only hook up the tail servo to the controller. Your cyclic servos would hook up directly to the RX, and you would keep your TX set to three servo swash type.

Note that in this respect, the ZYX is actually simpler than the CX to use as a tail only gyro, since it features separate leads from the controller to the RX - whereas the CX has integral leads. On the CX, therefore, you will need to secure the unused aileron, elevator and collective leads.

When you start to tweak the tail settings, you can ignore all the cyclic ones. The preset models may still be a useful starting point. #1, the beginner model, has a very sluggish tail, and it's not really till you get to models #4 and #5 that the tail response starts to hot up. I had some stop bounce on my HK 450 Pro with the tail settings from the #5 model, but I tuned them mostly out by using PID 70, 30, 15, tail accel 100 and decel 20. Compare those values with the #5 model PID settings of 80, 50, 30, accel 125, decel 35.

The other thing to watch out for is the RC deadband setting, which by default is set to 40 (or even 80 for the beginner model) this can result in a vague feel about centre, and I prefer to reduce it to 20.

Good luck!
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Last edited by 2Doggs; Oct 31, 2012 at 12:33 PM. Reason: CX integral leads
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Dr.M's Avatar
United States, WA, Issaquah
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
Hello everybody, congrats for supporting this piece of hardware!

I have a may-be stupid question:

I just received my CX-3X1000. Why would I flash it with tarot's firmware and use their software?

I can just use John's software to program it, no?

Thanks
As stated above, most people (including myself) cross-flashed the CX units to ZYX firmware in response to the lack of support and updates from the OEM. However, the CX unit will fly just fine after a bit of tuning, particularly on the tail.

If you want to use it as a tail-only gyro, you'll have to deal with the wiring and make sure the gyro is powered up properly. You may have to use a Y-harness from the Rx to the gyro. I do have to say that none of my CX units performed very well on the tail until I added collective and cyclic precompensation, so you'd probably need to plug in at least the collective pitch signal cable (another Y harness in the Rx), so you can use this feature. In the end, I think that using the 3x1000 as a tail-only gyro has the potential to create a wiring mess and/or perform poorly. At the same time, you could probably score a smoking deal on the classifieds for a used Spartan Quark/DS760, or a Futaba GY401/GY520, which are tried and tested tail-only gyros.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 04:07 PM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
1,827 Posts
Ok, great, I only did a brief test.
I've had lots of wag, couldn't even takeoff. Will reduce sensitivity (couldn't adjust it) tomorrow.

I'll also try flying 2Doggs' settings "PID 70, 30, 15, tail accel 100 and decel 20".

Will let you know, thanks

EDIT: Dr M., my initial thought was to get one of the good gyros, but I'm planning to change to full FBL after my next crash, so the CX was the first step. (FBL head in mail already)
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 03:28 AM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
1,827 Posts
Ok, so I did get to try it today and wow, this is a steady tail!

Although I just tested hovering in a small 10x10 ft area, so low altitude tail-in only.

Also, mechanically the setup was incorrect (the default 7-8 degrees pitch was not there) but it still held nicely in HH! I also didn't touch PID etc yet, but compared to my old gyro (HK401B modded), having a tail hold like this is great

I'll fix it and fly it in a more open area soon. Thanks for the help!
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 12:23 PM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
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So, I have a few problems.

The one has to do with my heli's mechanical setup, unrelated to this thread, not gonna explain it.

The other is about the minimum servo movement. It looks like that with the FBL unit, in order to get the tail servo moving I need to give a lot of input in the Tx. I have disabled EXPO to verify that it is not my Tx's problem.

So if I give just a bit of rudder, nothing happens. If I keep pushing, at some point the tail servo jumps to the "correct" position. This is unnoticeable in the brief flight I had, or on lazy Susan testing, but is very noticeable when I try to trim the rudder (rate mode ofcourse). So I have to reach 7-8 clicks to get it to move, and then it jumps too much on one side!

Is this normal ZYX/CX behavior?

HH holds ok, but I want to trim rate mode, too, and I can't do it mechanically, so I have to use trims and reset the neutral point.

EDIT: looks like that even the fbl unit can't give small increments of rudder correction! sometimes it oscilates between two "values" (translated into tail rotor pitch angles) to keep the heli in one place. This only happens in rate mode, but probably I just didn't try enough in HH to discover it.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 12:30 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
So, I have a few problems.

The one has to do with my heli's mechanical setup, unrelated to this thread, not gonna explain it.

The other is about the minimum servo movement. It looks like that with the FBL unit, in order to get the tail servo moving I need to give a lot of input in the Tx. I have disabled EXPO to verify that it is not my Tx's problem.

So if I give just a bit of rudder, nothing happens. If I keep pushing, at some point the tail servo jumps to the "correct" position. This is unnoticeable in the brief flight I had, or on lazy Susan testing, but is very noticeable when I try to trim the rudder (rate mode ofcourse). So I have to reach 7-8 clicks to get it to move, and then it jumps too much on one side!

Is this normal ZYX/CX behavior?

HH holds ok, but I want to trim rate mode, too, and I can't do it mechanically, so I have to use trims and reset the neutral point.
It may be a result of the high default value for RC deadband. On the #1 preset "Beginner" model, it's a whopping 80. On the #2, #3 and #4 presets, it's 60, and on the #5 model, it's 40. I have mine set to 20. In the software, you can find the setting in the "advanced" settings, at the bottom right of the screen.
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 01:05 PM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
It may be a result of the high default value for RC deadband. On the #1 preset "Beginner" model, it's a whopping 80. On the #2, #3 and #4 presets, it's 60, and on the #5 model, it's 40. I have mine set to 20. In the software, you can find the setting in the "advanced" settings, at the bottom right of the screen.
OMG! That's it!
I'm so stupid, you had already told me before, I just didn't touch those settings yet...

Thanks so much, it's fixed! it's not a hardware issue that I was afraid it was! (ehirobo did a really bad job packing my order... see pics, shame on them. Single bubble wrap protecting the cx, and it was already flat [no air inside] when it arrived)
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 01:09 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmavr8 View Post
Single bubble wrap protecting the cx, and it was already flat [no air inside] when it arrived)
I think you just had one of those anal-retentive mail carriers that popped every bubble as he walked up to your house!
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Old Nov 02, 2012, 01:21 PM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I think you just had one of those anal-retentive mail carriers that popped every bubble as he walked up to your house!
Haha, no, couldn't be the case, as I had to go to the P.O. to pick it up :P

The packing tape was also ineffective. The whole thing was handed to me in three pieces at the P.O.!

Anyway, back on topic: even with deadband 20 I can find a spot where it does wag a bit, but I think I'll not drop more for the time being... maybe later.

Can't wait for tomorrow's daylight...
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