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Old Jan 04, 2012, 07:59 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Nice plane.
R,
Target
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Last edited by target; Jan 04, 2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old Jan 04, 2012, 08:14 PM
War is over (if you want it)
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
2,665 Posts
Great pic Frag! What a gorgeous plane!
Flaps on the Ceres are tough. You really need 3rd bearings on this plane and need to get the servo arms short enough to minimize the effects of gear slop. It's a challenge to get them this short and you end up carving out the clevis pretty severely but the result is minimized slop and full travel with flat covers. If your servo endpoints are not in the 100% to 140% range in both directions then your arms are too long and slop, torque, and resolution are compromised. Hence the comment about those bulged covers. All clevises need to be glued shut to eliminate slop on the open side and be sure the servo is mounted in the correct location (pushrod must be perpendicular to hinge) or else the rod will generate side loads on the arm flexing both the clevis and arm. I've bought many used planes and every single one of them had the servos mounted randomly wherever they landed when thrown at the wing. On the Ceres this really needs to be done right and it's worth taking 1 or 2 seconds to square up the pushrod with the hinge. If you're replacing servos 761's are OK for flaps, 3421's are nice but really expensive, heavy, slow, and require clumsy, heavy, and expensive mounting frames. 6125 Minis are the absolute ideal and plenty powerful for the Ceres flaps. They also have nice horns that have plenty of area for drilling and small hubs that are easier to clear the clevis.
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Old Jan 04, 2012, 10:44 PM
launch low, fly high
New Zealand, Hawke's Bay, Havelock North
Joined Dec 2004
1,883 Posts
Nice post Vespa! The outer bearing really made a huge difference. Your comments regarding the end point #s are very important.

I still really love my Ceres. It handles so nicely, goes fast, and thermals pretty well for an F3B plane. I did flutter the bejeesus outta my Ceres once. Turned out that over several years the screw that went thru the servo horn and outer bearing had backed out, and the servo horn slowly crept off from the servo splines. Now it is part of the annual inspection checklist to ensure that the servo screw is still tight.

One thing for consideration. I always tie my servo in to both the top and the bottom skin to increase the linkage stiffness. If you are just bolting the servo to the upper skin, then the servo loads end up flexing the upper skin in a torsional manner. One shear tie to the lower skin will pretty much eliminate this source of softness in the installation. This gets relatively more important with shorter control surface horn lengths.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 03:04 AM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
Further testing; ran it with half-ballast today; it's like having a motor in it!
Awesome lift helps. Although a bit reluctant to mash the pedal in the conditions due to frail winch line.

This thing is crying out for 1.6mm barge rope.

Dives from height (lots of height) with half-ballast generated that low-freq woomph-woomph sound as it flew through turbulence. Probably as fast as I've ever gone (not withstanding DS). No flutter from the 171s either which was surprising. MKS DS 6125 minis are en route however (and mini Deans..thanks Ken/ Vespa).

As for thermalling, the increased dihedral over the Estrellas I used to fly just makes it so much easier to thermal AND the rudder control make flat turns easy.

I remember Joe flying at his first Jerilderie (2009?) during Friday's "Need for Speed" event and his fully ballasted Ceres thermalling to 1200ft + then ripping off a rapid speed run and thinking; "...she will be mine, one day she will..."
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 05:31 AM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
Joined Sep 2008
2,510 Posts
Frag you have to fly a Fosa. . I have a ceres and fosa. And love both ! I fluttered my ceres at 150 ish mph DSing. With mks mini's now I have put tall horns for better geometry. No more flutter. Great video, how do you mount gopro on the wing ? Can you post a pic please.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 06:48 AM
isoaritfirst
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Not a Brummie/but close
Joined Sep 2005
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I did post this a while ago it may help anyone new to servo installations in mouldie wings.

http://www.barcs.co.uk/forum/rc-equi...flap-install-1

Mike
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 04:04 PM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
GoPro mounting

Great link Mike.

Herewith GoPro mount on starboard wing.
You can also use the two fairings side to side when mounting the GoPro facing rearwards.

The fairings make a massive difference.

Bind the lot to the wing / fuz using a further strip of masking tape over the whole assembly; the button still works well despite this.

Also polish the lens with auto cutting compound to remove any scratches. Tried the lens covers but didn't like them; loss of quality.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 08:11 PM
I do this for fun!
Sunshine Coast, Australia
Joined Sep 2004
1,198 Posts
Chris,

I have a set of the Fu-fix outrigger bearings and they look very good. They are going into my Windburner DS plank but I am definitely intending to use them in future F3X planes FWIW.

There's a thread here about them if you need more info.

Love the GoPro fairings
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 04:48 AM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
RX batt switch and 2.4 installed

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the heads-up on the Fu-Fix bearing supports; they look good.

To reduce wear on the RX batt connector I installed a 240v 2A toggle switch from JayCar (OZ Radio Shack equivalent) and replaced the thin batery harness wire with slightly heavier guage. The toggle works v. well; nice positive switching.

Installed a new FrSky JR Module / RX in the Ceres and all the trims went awry.

Sorted that out in the shed then went to the field to range-check and winch it in warm but overcast weather. Enjoyed a few more trimming flights to sort out flight modes.

The FrSky has audio feedback for the TX/ RX link strength and flying to the fish farm (1Km away) produced the occasional beep (which is good).

The 2.4GHz RX liberated 20g all-up; 10g of noseweight which was balancing the long 36MHz antenna and the antenna.

Also the TX loses the long aerial and becomes easier to hold. The orientation of the TX antenna stub is critical; I found 30 deg from horizontal and on the left gave fewest beeps.

It's pretty much sorted now, it's the nicest F3B glider I've flown.
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 03:41 AM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
MKS Minis arrived quick-smart from Andrew at Falcon Gliders.

Removed one flap servo (the one I removed earlier) with little effort or, at least the fewest expletives.

The other one won't budge. I had to have a break from the effort.

The MKS servos look nice. If you rotate the output shaft with the servo arm on the gear train feels precise, friction-free and smooth as a Bond villain.

Off to the slope tomorrow but it won't be the Ceres I'l be taking, it'll be a full-ballast Vikos and a draggy MiniVec.
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 03:50 AM
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Australia, QLD, Gold Coast
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I also recieved a box from andrew today for a mini vec fuse, and I have never seen packaging like it ! It was in its own wooden crate. I was very impressed and will keep the box . . Need to take a pic so you can see. Amazed
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 11:06 AM
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United States, CA, San Luis Obispo
Joined Aug 2006
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Frag, look at my "fixing an RDS wing" thread for the right tool to pop that servo out.

-Aaron
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 01:34 PM
War is over (if you want it)
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
2,665 Posts
Fragster, I had to chisel the flap servos out of my Ceres also. I used an actual chisel entering thru the MPX hole and it was not easy. Also try to keep things in perspective -- a replacement servo case costs $15 and takes 20 minutes to assemble, so it's often wise to simply dremel or hot-knife the case open and not risk damaging the wing.

P.S. Don't be tempted to glue empty frames into the wing. If I had a dollar for every wing I've seen wrecked by empty servo frames... Just wax the servo, bolt it, then glue it.
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Old Jan 09, 2012, 06:38 PM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
Like pulling teeth old skool

Got the 2nd flap servo out; using the m3 bolt on the output shaft gave a little more leverage and with a 2nd screwdriver under it came unstuck. Credit to Baudis for making such strong wing skins; they copped a lot of abuse but still look pristine. Not sure of the lay-up but it's rugged.

I stripped off the remaining bog with hot chisel (turned upside down so it doesn't dig in).

A little sanding and the servo bays are good to go.

FYI
Both 171s are still OK to use.

Vespa
I'm with you on mounting servos in frames THEN glueing in. I learnt the hard way a while back.

Aaron
The hook worked well for you but I'll be using the "bolt in the shaft" trick in future. To get leverage for the screwdriver a block of balsa on the skin over the sub-spar seemed to work well. This way the splines aren't touched.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 05:27 AM
Thermal Wrangler
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Launceston Tasmania
Joined Mar 2004
2,142 Posts
Video of launch

I'm starting to get a feel for the Ceres in terms of snap-flap settings, how ballast affects it and the durability of the glider.

The leading edge is hard; my left shin can attest to that. I remember the Xperience Pro had a very brittle LE and would break very easily. The Ceres is awesome in this regard.

Anyhoo, here's some footage to warm you Northern Hemispherans:


Ceres F3B Speed Practice (1 min 45 sec)



Chris.
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