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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:03 PM
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Eagle202's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by Flypoppa View Post
I could fancy one of these.
https://vimeo.com/51951048
Wow. That thing is as strong as Gene's flying brick. Prettier too.

I didn't catch a price for that dEX but it looks like it would stand up to the hard impacts the Scott and Bob do to their planes.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:15 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
NightRunner417's Avatar
USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Almost done... Just a little work left to do on the camera mount system and she'll be good to go. You'll notice that I don't have anything riding atop the wings anymore (except the aileron servos, naturally) and that's how things will stay. Even the 808HD #16 keycam won't appear on the wing - it will instead ride atop the FPV cam on the turret! The top of the wing saddle now carries all the crap that has to stay out and exposed to the air - the ESC and VTX due to heat production, the GPS and VTX antennae due to need for cleanest line of sight path. There will of course be some drag generated by these items, but then too there's already that problem because of the FPV and HD cameras anyway, so it's basically in for a penny in for a pound with that.

You can also faintly see my trial experiments with the polyacrylic wing coating. I've found that indeed it doesn't harm the foam AT ALL, but it has to be sprayed on or otherwise it takes a long time between light sponge coats and waiting for drying or the next sponge coat takes off the previous one. A misting sprayer is a vastly better method - much faster and much heavier per coat. The result is a beautiful shiny finish that is very smooth to the touch. As for any strengthening bonus, I won't know anything about that until I've had a chance to coat both wings a couple of times. My homemade polystyrene coating made the wings ROCK solid, so that's my "candle" of comparison. It will clearly take many more coats since the polystyrene was a heavy syrup type fluid while this polyacrylic is a thin, watery liquid. In theory, the polyacrylic can achieve the same result in terms of strengthening and protection, given a proper application, but obviously without the drastic foam damage that went with the polystyrene.

Flight testing won't happen until Sunday... I'm into my work week as of tomorrow and I still have a few things left to do on the plane before she's actually ready to fly. She's very close, fully functional except for the camera setup, but functional and air-worthy are two very different things.

Rick NR417
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:57 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
London N.E. UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Rick. Why have you put the aileron servos on the top of the wing? If they are sticking out even a bit, they will act as spoilers. Therefore loosing lift. That is why it is normal to fit them on the bottom of the wing. When embedded in the bottom of the wing, I cover with tape to protect them.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Denmark, Capital Region of Denmark, Charlottenlund
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Originally Posted by Flypoppa View Post
Rick. Why have you put the aileron servos on the top of the wing? If they are sticking out even a bit, they will act as spoilers. Therefore loosing lift. That is why it is normal to fit them on the bottom of the wing. When embedded in the bottom of the wing, I cover with tape to protect them.
I also put mine in the top to protect linkage, but they are tiny and only protude a few millimeters:



Below they are basically flush. Extended servo wires with equally thin wires and taped it down:



Running the wires diagonally to the inner point of the leading edge reduces wires lenght and airflow obstruction (elongated cross section of wires when seen from the front).
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 01:53 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
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Originally Posted by Flypoppa View Post
Rick. Why have you put the aileron servos on the top of the wing? If they are sticking out even a bit, they will act as spoilers. Therefore loosing lift. That is why it is normal to fit them on the bottom of the wing. When embedded in the bottom of the wing, I cover with tape to protect them.
I'm not sure why it took two years of me putting cameras, vtx's and vtx antennae on the tops of my wings to finally get an actual, technical reason to not do it, lol. Anyways, it's no big deal... I can flip them around really easily.

Do you all agree with that - that they're better served on the undersides of the wing due to loss of lift? I would have thought that being on the undersides would disturb airflow enough to cause an increase in stall speed, frankly. Am still learning, of course, but in that spriit I'd really like to know more about it. The only experience I have to go on really is my Xen Falcon, which was designed with the elevon servos topside mounted, and my old Skyartec Skyfun which was designed for bottom mount but I got tired of thrashing the servos and linkages so I flipped them around and it flew brilliantly. Then too maybe it's different with wings and deltas, so I don't really know.

Rick NR417
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:19 PM
Why so serious?
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United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
I'm not sure why it took two years of me putting cameras, vtx's and vtx antennae on the tops of my wings to finally get an actual, technical reason to not do it, lol. Anyways, it's no big deal... I can flip them around really easily.

Do you all agree with that - that they're better served on the undersides of the wing due to loss of lift? I would have thought that being on the undersides would disturb airflow enough to cause an increase in stall speed, frankly. Am still learning, of course, but in that spriit I'd really like to know more about it. The only experience I have to go on really is my Xen Falcon, which was designed with the elevon servos topside mounted, and my old Skyartec Skyfun which was designed for bottom mount but I got tired of thrashing the servos and linkages so I flipped them around and it flew brilliantly. Then too maybe it's different with wings and deltas, so I don't really know.

Rick NR417
I have always read that you don't mess with the top of a wing if it has an airfoil style. Though I doubt the 2 servos would cause and real life issues I've seen people ruin their wings lift with a row of LEDs across the top.
Flat plate delta wings have no air foil and aren't effected, as your flying nose up to increase air pressure on the wing bottom for lift.
Of course this is all nit picking but since you want a slick plane, mounting on the bottom may be best. Cover the with servo covers to protect them during landings.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 02:47 PM
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
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Originally Posted by 2500GENE View Post
I have always read that you don't mess with the top of a wing if it has an airfoil style. Though I doubt the 2 servos would cause and real life issues I've seen people ruin their wings lift with a row of LEDs across the top.
Flat plate delta wings have no air foil and aren't effected, as your flying nose up to increase air pressure on the wing bottom for lift.
Of course this is all nit picking but since you want a slick plane, mounting on the bottom may be best. Cover the with servo covers to protect them during landings.
Thanks Gene for the info. Like I said, I can flip em around easily enough so it's no biggie to me, and I may be able to make my own covers with a little creativity.

For info purposes, both the Falcon and the Skyfun have airfoil wingshapes, but are somewhat more shallow than the EZ's wings and also don't have the washout shape that the EZ wings have at the trailing edges.

I want reduced drag vs. my previous layout but I'm not obsessed with it. I was getting good flight times even with the VTX in the usual position on wing root and VTX antenna on mid wing, and you guys might even remember me complaining that my flight times were getting too long so as that I had to do more cutting in my videos. That's ok now because they upped my time limit on YouTube MUHUAHAHAHAHAHA! Haha kidding, I don't want to do 30 min plane videos anymore... limiting to 10 - 15 is better for a number of reasons.

Anyway, all I really want is a little better efficiency, stability, and especially I want better stall characterstics. My plane had been tipstally for some time now, even before I messed with coatings, partly due to accumulated damages and partly due to lateral drag and weight imbalances. I want to eliminate the tipstall tendency (should be a piece of cake with the new layout), and I'd like to keep a low stall speed but I accept that with my FPV gear on board I have to take that weight into acct. I am not out to drive myself into obsession with every little detail - my old plane was once PLENTY good enough in flight characteristics before time, damage, and crazy experiments took their toll - I just want to meet or exceed the best days, really. The "Glory Days" of my FPV flying experiences, if you will - when the Falcon and tricopter made me want to scream and throw things, and the EZ was considered my plane to run to, to restore my confidence and take a much needed break from bratty, squirrelly aircraft. I think even as this new one is right now, I'll be very satisfied. I think with a couple minor changes, I'll be very pleased indeed.

Rick NR417
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:05 PM
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UK, Bedworth
Joined Apr 2004
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I've always thought that its best to avoid lumps and bumps sticking out of the wing at all but if you must have something sticking out its better to have it out of the bottom surface. Any disturbance of teh upper surface pretty much stops that bit of the wing working and sends turbulence over the tail if they are within the tail span. That's why the high performance gliders have spoilers fitted so they can get them down . I dont use ailerons on my gliders to keep the wings clean and save weight.

Regards

Terry
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Flypoppa's Avatar
London N.E. UK
Joined Jan 2007
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Gene answered the question for me. If you want to keep them on top then make sure they are sunk in to the surface and cover with tape to get the original shape.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:25 PM
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United States, NJ, Stanhope
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Rick, looking forward to seeing the report of the maiden on the new bird. Even if you put the servos on top :-)
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 04:43 PM
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Hahahahaha Scott you're the best. You know, I was going to lay the servos on their sides in bigger holes but the rods terminate in straight ends and I don't want to run the risk of breaking them off by bending them up. I thought about trying to bend them red hot but I wonder if the heat itself would damage the metal enough to weaken it severely. Don't know what I'll do just yet but I would LOVE to lay them flat like that, always did want to.

Just shot a short video tour of the ailerons/gyros in action, the basic layout of the electronics that ride atop the wing saddle, and the camera pan system. Gonna quickie it and put it up on YouTube shortly. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 08:15 PM
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The "PhoenixStar" Tour (11 min 5 sec)
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Singapore
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I'm new to the ES*2, as I live in Singapore, Hobby King is about the cheapest way of acquiring a Motor, ESC and Servos. However there is such a bewildering choice that I'm not sure which ones to go for. I would sure appreciate the advice of forum members.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloraj View Post
I'm new to the ES*2 and as I live in Singapore Hobby King is about the cheapest way of acquiring a Motor, ESC and Servos. However there is such a bewildering choice that I'm not sure which ones to go for. I like the XT60 fit and already have a 3S LiPo with that fitting. I would sure appreciate the advice of forum members.
This has been discussed extensively, both in this thread and in the ES ll thread. Use the search function and you'll learn that many people have success with the MPX recommendation of a 2830mm 1000KV outrunner. 3.00 or 3.17mm shaft.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:00 AM
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
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Had my maiden flight this morning and she did GREAT! I'm so pleased. There was a little wobble that could either have been gyro oscillation, air turbulence, or worst case, somewhat loose wings, but all in all she flew fantastically well and I set a new record for minimum power needed to stay aloft, at just about 3.5 amps on 3S. I'll have a more accurate figure after I've had a chance to really watch the FPV video and psychoanalyze the numbers.

The new 808HD #16 keycam was amazing as well. The colors and lighting are closer to that of the GoPro now, and stairstepping on both was much improved. The day's lighting of course was perfect for it, with steady bright sunlight all the way, but still she did a great job and I had more than enough time with the stock battery on full charge. She held to her little velcro perch atop the FPV turret BRILLIANTLY, and I think her position there even really helped with damping vibrations from the motor/prop. The only thing I'm not thrilled with is that I captured the plane's nose in the view, but so what... IF I just have to have a clear shot with no nose, I can do that by placing the cam out on the wing when and if I ever have to. This will be an FPV plane video - it's not that big a deal that it's obvious it was attached to a plane. Besides, you get to see the play of light and shadows across the nose, which I always thought was kinda cool anyway.

The flight did end incomplete with a smack into the very topmost wire of some powerlines... a MAJOR whoops on my part. I couldn't see the wire (it's barely visible even in the HD recording), and I didn't give myself enough altitude to get over it. I managed to win the lottery on that one because just 6 inches up or down and I would have missed it with ease. No real damage... just a bent tail, shattered prop, and a little bit of squish to the nose area that will be easily fixed. NO MORE of that foolishness... that was really dumb, lol.

Anyway, I really am thrilled with how she performed. She's every bit the good girl I thought she would be. I'll have a video up eventually, but meantime here's a cap from the HD footage. :-)

Rick NR417
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