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Old Jan 01, 2012, 12:06 AM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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designed here in late 1950's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marske_XM-1

Horten IV was flown here in the '50s. See this paper:
http://www.acsol.net/~nmasters/H-IV-report.html
Rudy Opitz flew it in the 1952 Nationals to something like 7th place.

Not sure if you'd call Backstrom's EPB-1 flying plank high performance or not, but it dates back to something like 1954.

The Horten's were doing some pretty impressive stuff during the 1950's in Argentina.

As far as that model goes, there has been some recent work done on the aerodynamics of the outboard horizontal stabilizer positions. I understand that as long as you don't stall, there is greater pitch stability from a smaller surface, as well as some reduction in induced drag compared to a wing of the same span. (Same span as the wing, if you throw in the stabs as part of span I'm not sure it has an advantage anymore.) You can move the c.g. back, but of course that makes a stall nastier. At least according to what I heard from a guy who helped fly a UAV that used this configuration.
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Originally Posted by Knoll53 View Post
The 1954 model has the benefits of a swept wing (the tips are well behind the CG for pitch control) without the problems associated with spanwise flow.

All done without carbon fiber. Amazing.

I wonder if there were ANY high performance flying wings here in the States back then.

Kent
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Old Jan 01, 2012, 06:45 AM
F1B is ok.
Monheim am Rhein Germany
Joined Jul 2008
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Flying wing with an engine. Suitable for electric drive.


Heinz
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Old Jan 01, 2012, 08:31 AM
Deniable plausibility
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Originally Posted by hastf1b View Post
Flying wing with an engine. Suitable for electric drive.


Heinz
What an interesting design. Is the parachute some kind of 'de-thermaliser'?

Thanks for posting.
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Old Jan 01, 2012, 09:57 AM
F1B is ok.
Monheim am Rhein Germany
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Is the parachute some kind of 'de-thermaliser'?
Yes, the parachute is for d.t. Triggered by fuse or timer.

Heinz
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Old Jan 01, 2012, 11:15 AM
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More !

O.K. hastf1b, I'm beginning to think that you have quite a fine library of modeling history on your shelves. I can't imagine anyone else who could pull up such rare and truly historic information as you have done.

Here in the States we had similar modeling going on 50 - 60 - 70 years ago. I'm a little familiar with Frank Ziac. I don't recall seeing flying wings from him.

Please feel free to post other gems from your archives. Seeing the German versions of such vintage models is truly a treat.

Kent
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Old Jan 02, 2012, 04:57 AM
F1B is ok.
Monheim am Rhein Germany
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Pictures

Picture 1 is from a model magazine in 1948 !!!
Picture 2 is around 1960 and shows glider, rubber- and engine powered Nurflügel.

Heinz
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Old Jan 02, 2012, 09:28 AM
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Pictures
Heinz
The variety of design in 1948 is amazing. If understand modeling in the BC era (Before Computers and the Internet) modelers learned more from local club members as opposed to outside sources, such as magazines. So when there was a regional meet, you would see a truly wide variety of designs.

Revisiting these one of a kind designs is a treat. I hope we see more from you Heinz. Thanks.

Kent
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Old Jan 02, 2012, 11:12 PM
Just call me crash for short
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A search for "Flying Wing" on the Outerzone site - http://www.outerzone.co.uk/search/re...&Submit=Search will turn up 13 plans or so. while a few are not real flying wings, there are still some good old timer designs and even has the 1971 Searl Voodoo. And from the Vintage & Old-Timer Plans thread in the Vintage & Old-Timer Designs forum is the Sparrow attached.
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Last edited by Quick61; Jan 03, 2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Added another plan
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Nice find Quick61. The Dactyl was not shy with the reflexed airfoil. It must have been a challenge to build that one straight. It also has a simliar structure as my Alpine Sled. From 1953.

Kent
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 10:40 AM
Just call me crash for short
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Originally Posted by Knoll53 View Post
Nice find Quick61. The Dactyl was not shy with the reflexed airfoil. It must have been a challenge to build that one straight. It also has a simliar structure as my Alpine Sled. From 1953.

Kent
That Dactyl looks like it would be a prime candidate for being traced out in CAD and have build tabs added to those ribs. I just added the Sparrow to my post and is one that I could end up building for the 2012 Old Timer build off. I'll post back a link to the build thread if I do. Being one that does not like to hatch all of his chickens before they count, I do have to get this little conventional glider out of the way first.

Mark
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 02:08 PM
F1B is ok.
Monheim am Rhein Germany
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Some cover pictures.

Heinz
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Quick61: if y0u build the Sparrow, I'd be interested to hear back as to how if flies. Forward sweep has the benefit of no spanwise flow but I'm thinking that rudder needs to be bigger. I wonder if there any reports from back in the day? Should be fully aerobatic.

Heinz: the April 1962 FMB cover has a glider with some serious rib spacing. That's what I call profile management.

Kent
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 05:20 PM
Just call me crash for short
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoll53 View Post
Quick61: if y0u build the Sparrow, I'd be interested to hear back as to how if flies. Forward sweep has the benefit of no spanwise flow but I'm thinking that rudder needs to be bigger. I wonder if there any reports from back in the day? Should be fully aerobatic.

Kent
No rudder, just stabilizing fin, (but that's probably what you meant ), and I think it looks about right compared to other wings that use a center fin. Maybe not quite as tall, but it does have a long chord. My task will be to figure out where and at what size the elevons need to be installed to be effective and to keep it light enough to be a good flyer that has a chance of thermalling. The original was built with all ply according to the write up, heavy, and intended for the slope. Once it was built from balsa and the tow hook was moved from the center to the wing tips using a rolling bobbin tow line it was reported to be a decent glider for free flight. While I will follow the plans for layout and the like, I can see the front spars getting wider, made of spruce with either a C or I beam shear webbing and more than likely having some 12K tow laminated to them.

Mark
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Old Jan 03, 2012, 05:30 PM
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Here's my thought on the vertical fin. Inasmuch as a swept back wing will have added yaw stability due to that sweep, it would follow that forward sweep would have equal instability, hence the need for more vertical fin behind the CG. Also, the moment arm on that fin is not large.

Just an observation. Your results may vary.

Kent
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Old Jan 04, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
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Here in the States we had similar modeling going on 50 - 60 - 70 years ago. I'm a little familiar with Frank Ziac. I don't recall seeing flying wings from him.

Kent
Hey Kent, Frank Ziac did the Sailwing 50, a free flight 50" wing. I know of at least one that was built 2X and RC'ed by California Condor here on RCG - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...34&postcount=3 but as far as I know, that is the only one he did. On a side note, I just love his Thermics and am in the process of building a new set of wings for my Thermic 72.

Mark
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